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#38876 - 08/06/08 03:48 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: paulraphael]
retr2327 Offline
member

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 108
"He was 17-20 feet off the ground, 6 feet above his piece, which was 1-2 feet extended, trying to place another piece and his hand slipped."

Well, let's do the math. Assume the lower height estimate (17 feet); assume that 17 feet is measured to his harness tie-in; assume the 6 feet above his piece is accurate (i.e., six feet from piece to harness tie-in), with a 1-foot extension (that there is no need for there, but that's another story). That puts his waist 7 feet above the biner on the piece, and the biner at 10 feet above the ground. If he was belayed on a steel cable with 0 slack in the system, he slams to a stop with his waist 3 feet above the ground. Now add in rope stretch, a few feet of slack in the system, maybe a few inches or so through the belay device, and your climber is hitting pretty hard (and yes, the rope might help keep him upright after he hits).

Not a pretty situation. A lot of climbers are paranoid until they get the first piece (or two) in, but underestimate how quickly it (or they) become(s) worthless. Either sew up the first 20-30 feet, or figure you may be soloing.

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#39012 - 08/12/08 05:10 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: retr2327]
wonderwoman Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 46
We did this climb last week, the day before the accident. My husband led it, and I later remarked how nervous I was at the lack of gear placed during the traversing sections. I could easily see how a ground fall could happen on this climb. Hope the injured person gets better soon!

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#39015 - 08/12/08 07:27 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: wonderwoman]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3764
Loc: Ulster County, NY
HUH??? Am I missing something? the step right is like 45-50 feet off the deck, and you are at most 8 feet above your BOMBER gear at the end of the moves. No way you could deck from the moves up top....unless you seriously screw up your pro.

RR

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#39018 - 08/12/08 07:52 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: RangerRob]
Coppertone Online   content
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
I agree with Rob. This is a very safe climb. The problem with P-38 is that it has so much gear that those who need it tend to get pumped out placing it all, while those who are strong enough to place as much gear as they need generally don't need it. The opening moves are very protectable with nuts or small cams, great gear is right in your face soon as you stand up the opening moves and then you can place gear just about every inch of the climb through the crux. If you have made it through the crux then the 5.8 runout up top should not be an issue.

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#39023 - 08/12/08 08:36 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: Coppertone]
wonderwoman Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 46
No, he didn't run out the crux, over protect, or have any problems with it. I just couldn't see him when he was high up and moving right in the run out section, and it made me nervous.

And yes, I can see someone taking a ground fall. Sometimes it's a good idea to extend, and sometimes it's not. Did the fallen climber think he was making a good decision by extending his pro to avoid rope drag while moving left? How close he was to the ground should have been taken into consideration.

One of the best climbing lesson memories for me is of a friend of mine taking my slings from me in JTree. She said 'This is crack - you don't extend everything or you'll hit the ground'. She was right, and I've paid extra attention to that ever since.

Anyway - here's to a speedy recovery.

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#39024 - 08/12/08 09:00 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: wonderwoman]
Coppertone Online   content
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
 Originally Posted By: wonderwoman
No, he didn't run out the crux, over protect, or have any problems with it. I just couldn't see him when he was high up and moving right in the run out section, and it made me nervous.


Where did you move right on P-38. It angles up left in the crack through the crux and then a few feet left to the mini ledge after the crux and then straight up over the bulge and up to the top. There is no reason to extend any gear on this climb, as you said it is a crack and a straight line. That being said it is never good to see anyone get hurt regardless of the situation and hopefully he will make a full recovery and be back on the rock soon.

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#39032 - 08/13/08 12:37 AM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: wonderwoman]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
 Originally Posted By: wonderwoman

One of the best climbing lesson memories for me is of a friend of mine taking my slings from me in JTree. She said 'This is crack - you don't extend everything or you'll hit the ground'. She was right,


Please explain? I understand why long slings are not necessary on many cracks. I don't understand why they will cause groundfall unexcept when you are "near" the ground or a ledge.

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#39034 - 08/13/08 02:12 AM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: wonderwoman]
learningtolead Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 981
Loc: a wanna be kerhonkson-er
 Originally Posted By: wonderwoman

One of the best climbing lesson memories for me is of a friend of mine taking my slings from me in JTree. She said 'This is crack - you don't extend everything or you'll hit the ground'.


Uh... I don't get this. The beauty of many crack climbs is that they're a gear free for all. why would just the fact that it's a crack mean that you'd hit the ground if you extended your pieces???

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#39041 - 08/13/08 01:06 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: learningtolead]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4275
Loc: Poughkeepsie
 Originally Posted By: learningtolead
 Originally Posted By: wonderwoman

One of the best climbing lesson memories for me is of a friend of mine taking my slings from me in JTree. She said 'This is crack - you don't extend everything or you'll hit the ground'.


Uh... I don't get this. The beauty of many crack climbs is that they're a gear free for all. why would just the fact that it's a crack mean that you'd hit the ground if you extended your pieces???


Wonderwoman's crack-climbing friend obviously learned the notion from the post here a couple years ago that said if you put two foot runners on a dozen pieces, you'll fall an extra 24 feet.

I mean, you will...right?

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#39045 - 08/13/08 01:27 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Coppertone Online   content
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
 Originally Posted By: Mike Rawdon

Wonderwoman's crack-climbing friend obviously learned the notion from the post here a couple years ago that said if you put two foot runners on a dozen pieces, you'll fall an extra 24 feet.

I mean, you will...right?


that is incorrect you will fall 48 feet. The 2 feet that you are above the piece plus the 2 feet below the piece that the runner will extend to, multiplied by 12 pieces.

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