ok I usually don't jump into this but,
If someone posts a question about route beta at the Trapps or the Nears (which there is 2 very good guide books on them) there is usually a bunch of people that will post a ton of info. Yet on LC (no guide book) people get flamed when they ask for beta. Huh?....that’s being clueless?

try searching "lost city" same useless info and idiots like me "ranting on" found there. oh well.

hey GO, I didn't get of the wrong side of bed, I guess my excess is I'm just too bored at work.

I just suggested that he try the search because everyone else was posting *sigh*. I felt bad for him. I was trying to be helpful - And you know what? This IS fairy tale land because I am a "princess". I will zap you with my wand and your bordom will magically disappear.

*ZAP*

Sounds to me like someone's been hitting the sauce a little to heavily lately

Sam "LOSER"

I'd like a little of that princess magic if you could. Lost City is over the rainbow........over the river and through the woods......It's a lnd full of leprechauns, fairies, elves, and of course...trolls.

RangerRob

Oooh OOOOOhhh, ZAP me too!

I've always dreamed of being a parsnip, or even a clove of
garlic. Anything but a mundane onion.

--onion

I think it was the all caps and lack of punctuation that turned people off more than anything. People who post like that tend to not think of searching for previous posts. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for LC info or for even rehashing said info. Regular users of a message board often get tired of the same questions, but for someone seeking information about Gunks routes not found in guidebooks, this message board is the obvious place to start looking. Usually the more thoughtful a post, the better the reponse.

I know I've said this several times before, but I think it is important enough to keep on repeating. It seems to me than many people do not understand the truly inspired idea behind the status of Lost City.

The goal is to preserve Lost City as an undocumented area. This is completely different from having it be a secret area. The genius of this approach is to have a place, in the midst of a truly urban crag, where much of the adventure of previous climbing eras is preserved for current and future generations. Keeping LC undocumented preserves this vanishing experience for everyone. Respecting this so far universally observed agreement means that route location and grading information does not appear in guidebooks or in public forums such as this. (The Mohonk Preserve has specifically asked to have route information about LC omitted from guidebooks.) However, Lost City is not a secret, and there was never any intention (or ability) to restrict private communication about it.

I have had the pleasure of making a few first ascents in Lost City, all of which turned out to have been done by someone else before me. (John Stannard, of course.) Other than not getting to name the route after all, I had everying a first ascender in a new area gets to enjoy. If this type of uncertainty about difficulty and protection is not your cup of tea, you have an absolutely inexhaustible supply of well documented crags, including a lifetime's worth in the Gunks, to enjoy. Can't we carve out a little island of mystery for those who want to experience a different aspect of climbing? Is it not almost a sacred obligation not to let this opportunity slip away?

Almost every time there has been a question about Lost City, someone has volunteered to share information via pm. This is the appropriate way to honor the undocumented status without conveying the misimpression that LC is the secret preserve of a few insiders.

The flames that innocent inquirerers encounter when they ask about LC are unfortunate. The LC situation is unlike anything I know of in other areas, and people unfamiliar with it deserve some tolerance. However, road rage on the information highway is the norm, and I guess most travelers either get off at the first exit or become hardened to it.

Great commentary RG. Sometimes I get a little annoyed by repeat posts as well,..... then it dawns on me: I can always make a single click and "poof!!", I'm gone. After all, no one's got a hold of me by the family-jewels and is forcing me to respond. On the other hand, after a little while, the Forum becomes a semi-private refuge and you begin to take ownership of it (its mine,.. all mine, dammit!!). It can be a little difficult accepting new people into the refuge when they don't bother doing a simple search of previous posts. So I can feel GoClimb's pain. On the other hand (Doesn't Bloody_Stump have a lot of hands?), perhaps those new to the post haven't noticed the search button yet. Who knows? I'll cut FRANCHENZO a break and assume he's an unfortunate victim of "search button" oversight -- which a little time, understanding, and liberal amounts of cream should remedy.

I agree with Bloody Stump's Last post. He summarizes my attitude completely.

rg,

Not that it's relevent to this discussion, but I'm wondering; do you know who actually owns the out lying "secret" crags like LC and Bontcou? I was under the impression that LC wasn't a part of the Preserves property.

thanks,

ed e "who has no problem with "undocumented" or even "secret" areas..."