LC, Bonticou, and CL are all on Preserve land. Eagle Cliff is on hotel land. I'm not sure about GW. There is another concentration of undocumented climbs on PIPC land.

Edgy,

As far as I know, MarcC is right. I always thought Giant's Workshop was on Mountain house, not Preserve, grounds, but I guess I don't know for sure.

These things are easily settled with a map, which I can't seem to find at the moment.

I looked on my map and GW is on Preserve property as far as I can tell.

Forgive my "road rage". I think past performance will show that when someone has a question, however obvious, I have been among the first to volunteer a helpful and honest response. No-one starts out knowing everything, and one of the things I find most valuable about forums like this is the ability to learn from those who know more than I do, and to share my knowledge with those who know less.

I've never been to LC, and I have no opinion as to whether it should remain "off the books". But I've been to Gunks.com, and I do have opinions about the local ethics here. Not that my opinions are worth much, but I've been a member of the climbing community here long enough that I don't mind sharing them. I did not do so as kindly as I might, but I made my point, so I'll leave it alone.

As far as I know, Lost City and major parts of Bonticou are within the Mohonk Preserve. Giants Workshop, I believe, is also on Preserve property, though it is very close to the boundary.

As far as I know all the climbing at LC is on preserve property, and Bonticou is mixed preserve/private.

RangerRob

Thanks all,

I remembered being told many years ago that Running Man was on non-Preserve property. What I couldn't remember is that it's at Bonticou, not LC....

First my short term memory starts to fail...now I losing my long term memory....

thanks

ed

A clarification on Bonticou and my earlier post. The big, obvious cliff/pile that everyone points out as Bonticou is indeed on Preserve land. The extremely difficult routes that went up in the 80's, such as Running Man, are on a relatively short and very steep wall on the southeast side of the Bonticou mass, down in the woods a bit. The Preserve property line crosses this wall at some point. I have no idea who owns the section to the east of that point.

Yes, the A.I. wall (where can find Running Man) is on or adjacent to a private lot. I haven't been back there since 1993, but I don't think anyone's built on the lot yet.

It's a great little wall. Artificial Intelligence alone is worth the trip. Bandito (5.11c) and Lanman (5.11a) are terrific routes as well. There's a solid little 5.10 there as well.

At Lost City I've seen guides and groups of better that 12 students. "Secret???"