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#39059 - 08/13/08 04:14 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: Coppertone]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2675
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
 Originally Posted By: Coppertone
 Originally Posted By: Mike Rawdon

Wonderwoman's crack-climbing friend obviously learned the notion from the post here a couple years ago that said if you put two foot runners on a dozen pieces, you'll fall an extra 24 feet.

I mean, you will...right?


that is incorrect you will fall 48 feet. The 2 feet that you are above the piece plus the 2 feet below the piece that the runner will extend to, multiplied by 12 pieces.


Browndog would be so proud!

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#39061 - 08/13/08 04:41 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: chip]
phil Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2627
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
You peoples math skills frighten and confuse me

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#39071 - 08/13/08 06:31 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: learningtolead]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: learningtolead
 Originally Posted By: wonderwoman

One of the best climbing lesson memories for me is of a friend of mine taking my slings from me in JTree. She said 'This is crack - you don't extend everything or you'll hit the ground'.
Uh... I don't get this. The beauty of many crack climbs is that they're a gear free for all. why would just the fact that it's a crack mean that you'd hit the ground if you extended your pieces???


I get what WW is saying.

A lot of new leaders are taught to (mindlessly) extend EVERY runner they place, and I've seen it a bunch around the Gunks too. Reputation for wandering gear, rope drag, etc.

When you do that, the clip-in point of the rope is at least 2' lower than the piece, thus falls are potentially longer even with 'gear at your waist'. Between that and rope stretch, it's pretty easy to deck. As the guy on P38 can tell you, it seems.

In Josh, routes are generally short to start with, and often have those 'bouldery starts' ... so if you extend everything by 2', you're still looking at deck from a long ways into the route, regardless of how much gear you stuff in (and extend ...). Plus which, there's just no point in extending slings on a straight-up crack.

I don't think WW made that as a general statement, but probably as the first time she gave good thought to why one might not automatically fully extend every sling.

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#39098 - 08/14/08 01:31 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: abf826]
gunkie Offline
member

Registered: 07/19/00
Posts: 120
Loc: New Hope, PA
Lots of accidents on Shady Lady through the years. I caught a bomb in the late 70's when the leader got gear at the crux then went right [!!!]. I didn't say anything; I was like 16 years old and this guy was an experienced climber from Colorado. However, I was pretty sure the climb stepped up and LEFT, which it does. Well, this guy gets a nice hold way up and right and can't reverse the moves nor can he climb up. Eventually the realization hits him [and me] that he is going to take a huge fall. An old style Chouinard #5 stopper caught him five feet off the ground. Thank goodness I was tied into a tree. Otherwise I would have had my 130 pound carcass blasted through the lower pieces. BTW, he went right back up a re-led the pitch, going up and left this time. And I got the nut out after hanging on tension for quite a while.

I've led this route a bunch of times and I always laced up the bottom section with anything and everything that fit. After placing all that gear, the crux move feels pretty easy.

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#39114 - 08/14/08 08:54 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: Julie]
wonderwoman Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 46
 Originally Posted By: Julie
 Originally Posted By: learningtolead
 Originally Posted By: wonderwoman

One of the best climbing lesson memories for me is of a friend of mine taking my slings from me in JTree. She said 'This is crack - you don't extend everything or you'll hit the ground'.
Uh... I don't get this. The beauty of many crack climbs is that they're a gear free for all. why would just the fact that it's a crack mean that you'd hit the ground if you extended your pieces???


I get what WW is saying.

A lot of new leaders are taught to (mindlessly) extend EVERY runner they place, and I've seen it a bunch around the Gunks too. Reputation for wandering gear, rope drag, etc.

When you do that, the clip-in point of the rope is at least 2' lower than the piece, thus falls are potentially longer even with 'gear at your waist'. Between that and rope stretch, it's pretty easy to deck. As the guy on P38 can tell you, it seems.

In Josh, routes are generally short to start with, and often have those 'bouldery starts' ... so if you extend everything by 2', you're still looking at deck from a long ways into the route, regardless of how much gear you stuff in (and extend ...). Plus which, there's just no point in extending slings on a straight-up crack.

I don't think WW made that as a general statement, but probably as the first time she gave good thought to why one might not automatically fully extend every sling.


Thanks, Julie! These are definitely things that I meant to infer... Shortness of climbs at JTree... Not needing to extend gear on a straight up crack anyway...

And most importantly, using good judgment on gear extension. How close you are to the ground definitely matters.

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#39115 - 08/14/08 10:44 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: Julie]
Chas Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 1754
Loc: Flagstaff
I agree with you Julie,

A lot of people mindlessly extend everything. If the piece demands it due to a change in direction of the rope, by all means, extend the piece, but if it doesn't require it, why bother. You'll waste less time and energy, be more efficient and carry less gear if you don't. But like everything else, its a judgement call (damn those judgement calls)
)


Edited by Chas (08/14/08 10:45 PM)

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#39144 - 08/18/08 05:23 PM Re: Thanks for the rescue efforts!! (P38, 8/3/08) [Re: Chas]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 319
Its also worth pointing out that cams have a tendency to 'walk' in deep, parallel vertical granite cracks that they don't have in the mostly shallow horizontals at the Gunks, so extensions provide extra degrees of freedom that can minimize this. Having learned to climb on vertical cracks and spent plenty of time with a nut tool trying to work out deep cams, I'm something of a 'mindless extender' for this reason. But it really is a judgement call especially close to the ground.

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