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#50212 - 12/31/09 11:23 PM Re: Guantanamo transfer [Re: alicex4]
Daniel Offline
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Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
Thanks for the kind words, folks. Always a pleasure to engage in discussion with you.

And a happy new year to all!

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#50213 - 01/02/10 05:49 AM Re: Guantanamo transfer [Re: alicex4]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Originally Posted By: alicex4
Why are we screening "everyone" when there really seems to be a "profile" to these attacks? Blindly allowing PC pressure to spread out the security on everyone instead of concentrating the security and screening on the smaller pool of suspects seems irrational.

Only the ignorant who steadfastly deny that profiling doesn't work and is a waste of resources continue to promote the idea. Hence some of the loudest voices coming from Fux News.

Quote:
"I'm going to argue that this case illustrates the danger and the foolishness of profiling because people's conception of what a potential terrorist looks like often doesn't match reality. In this case we had a Nigerian, for example, not a person from the Middle East or from South Asia. If you look at the airline plot of 2006, two of the plotters were a married couple that were going to get on a plane with a young baby. The terrorists understand that the more they vary the kind of operative they use, the more likely they're going to be able to exploit prejudices if we allow those prejudices to guide the way we conduct our investigation.

I think it's not only problematic from civil rights' standpoint, but frankly,I think it winds up not being terribly effective."
- former Bush Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff on an NPR interview this week.
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#50214 - 01/02/10 11:50 AM Back to the original subject, more or less [Re: MarcC]
oenophore Online   confused
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Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5963
Loc: 212 land
Once a mind-reading machine is perfected and universally used, we shall have adequate security.

And now that I'm on the subject of such technology, we might get back to the original thread subject (The Candidates -- remember?) of political candidates. Let's throw in incumbents and well-known captains of industry as well. Vocal lie detectors have been around for quite some time. Anyone can buy such software. So why don't counterculture TV and radio stations employ such during a candidate's or incumbent's speech or news conference? Yeah, you might say of someone you dislike, as long as his lips are moving you know he's lying, but wouldn't you like to have some objective evidence? I couldn't be the only one who's thought of this.
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#50220 - 01/04/10 01:00 PM Re: Guantanamo transfer [Re: MarcC]
alicex4 Offline
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Registered: 07/05/00
Posts: 3400
Yeah, profiling doesn't work according to Chertoff. But the Nigerian had a one way ticket (red flag), purchased with cash (red flag), no checked luggage (red flag), and took a window seat (red flag), and one of his legs was through Yemen (red flag). I guess profiling on the basis of these flags would have been positive IMO.

I thought that was one of the reccommendations of the vaunted 9-11 Commission, red flagging these types of travelers.

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#50225 - 01/04/10 09:49 PM Re: Guantanamo transfer [Re: alicex4]
oenophore Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5963
Loc: 212 land
So now the subject of this thread has drifted to commercial air safety, mainly deterrence of passengers who might harm a plane in flight.
I haven't travelled by air since Jan. 1998, not because I couldn't afford to or didn't care to go to places with an airport. This excerpt from one of the late great George Carlin's rants sums up my feelings on that subject.

As far as I'm concerned, all this airport security, all the searches, the screenings, the cameras, the questions; it's just one more way of reducing your liberty and reminding you that they can fuck with you anytime they want as long as you put up with it.
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#50226 - 01/04/10 10:46 PM Re: Guantanamo transfer [Re: oenophore]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
Originally Posted By: oenophore
This excerpt from one of the late great George Carlin's rants sums up my feelings on that subject.

As far as I'm concerned, all this airport security, all the searches, the screenings, the cameras, the questions; it's just one more way of reducing your liberty and reminding you that they can fuck with you anytime they want as long as you put up with it.


And Dr. Carlin's rant was issued pre 9.11.
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Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

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#50228 - 01/05/10 05:50 AM Re: Guantanamo transfer [Re: alicex4]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
Originally Posted By: alicex4
Yeah, profiling doesn't work according to Chertoff. But the Nigerian had a one way ticket (red flag), purchased with cash (red flag), no checked luggage (red flag), and took a window seat (red flag), and one of his legs was through Yemen (red flag). I guess profiling on the basis of these flags would have been positive IMO.


I was kind of almost ready to forgive the administration--after all, no system will keep us perfectly safe--but Jon Stewart on tonight's Daily Show made the point that the shoe bomber also had a one-way ticket, paid with cash, no checked luggage, and flew from a European capital, also with explosives. Stewart said that we don't expect security to catch everything, but we do expect them to catch the exact same thing.

He also said it was the same plot with the explosive moved up the length of an inseam.

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#50229 - 01/05/10 05:52 AM Re: Guantanamo transfer [Re: yorick]
mworking Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 764
I don't think Dr. Carlin would have changed his statement one bit because of 911. 911 did not make us more or less safe. It simply scared a bunch of folk who thought they were safe into thinking they were going to make themsevles safe.

I'm not happy about the loss of lfe 911 caused, but I don't think that alone is even a slightly good reasoon to give up our freedom. Heck more lives have been given in Iraq since then - lives that our government intentionally sent into harms way. It's very simple, if our country valued those lives so much they would not have been lost - not to mention the 100's of thousands of Iraqis lives.


Edited by mworking (01/05/10 12:46 PM)

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#50230 - 01/05/10 10:52 AM Re: Guantanamo transfer [Re: Daniel]
oenophore Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5963
Loc: 212 land

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#50231 - 01/05/10 01:10 PM Re: Guantanamo transfer [Re: oenophore]
mworking Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 764
Thank OE, that was timely.

Yes let profile. Anyone who want to fly can't. Yeah, that will do it.

I'll try to append some text from today news if it get posted in time. It's not available yet.

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