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#39716 - 09/13/08 11:22 AM Re: The Candidates [Re: Mim]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5935
Loc: 212 land
if McCain drops dead, Palin would take the helm

For what it's worth, I heard on the radio today a Newsweek reporter saying that actuarially, McCain has a 9% chance of croaking (no, he didn't use that word) in the next four years.
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#39718 - 09/13/08 09:48 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: oenophore]
andrew Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 1816
Loc: Denver, CO
One point that has driven me absolutely nuts during this election is people talking about the democratic controlled Congress, which is totally misleading. The Senate is basically a 50-50 split, especially considering that psuedo-Democrat Independent Lieberman has now totally burned his bridges with the democrats. The democrats have a somewhat bigger edge in the house, but still only hold 54% of the seats.

Those advantages are slight, and are not even close to enough to break filibusters or override vetos. A more accurate description would be a democratic influenced Congress.
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#39721 - 09/14/08 12:11 AM Re: The Candidates [Re: Mim]
alicex4 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/05/00
Posts: 3400
Pulease, reality check, called chimmy carter???


PS My Uncle knew him in Annapolis, ......


Edited by alicex4 (09/14/08 12:12 AM)

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#39723 - 09/14/08 01:49 AM Re: The Candidates [Re: alicex4]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
and your point is...?

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#39733 - 09/15/08 10:12 AM Re: The Candidates [Re: mworking]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5935
Loc: 212 land
Perhaps the most insightful essay I've read about the current presidential campaign.
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#39735 - 09/15/08 11:27 AM Re: The Candidates [Re: Mim]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
 Originally Posted By: Mim
We can discuss 'till the cows come home that Obama's resume looks thin. You want to discuss thin resume??


the funny thing Obama is running for President and Palin was picked for Vice, but she has actually governed state. Palin has more experience than Obama who doesn't even Pledge Allegiance to the American flag. Talk about insulting!
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#39741 - 09/15/08 02:24 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: talus]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
 Originally Posted By: talus
the funny thing Obama is running for President and Palin was picked for Vice, but she has actually governed state. Palin has more experience than Obama who doesn't even Pledge Allegiance to the American flag. Talk about insulting!


First, can we please stop with the "Obama doesn't do the Pledge of Allegiance" thing already? It's been disproved over and over again--not that it should have ever mattered in the first place. If we're picking presidents over whether they obey certain rituals instead of what they're going to do about heath care and Iran, then it's no wonder why we've got a dysfunctional government.

The "experience" issue is a canard. Bush was experienced. Cheney was experienced. Rumsfeld was experienced. This was one of the most experienced administrations in recent history. But experience is useful only insofar as it informs judgment. And they were completely lacking in judgment.

And Obama has more experience than Lincoln did, and most people think Lincoln did a pretty good job. So I think we have to ask whether experience really correlates with job performance.

I recommend this Slate piece by Michael Kinsley. He argues that "experience" is the perennial criticism of presidential candidates because no one usually has it. If you're a governor, then you lack the requisite foreign policy experience. If you're a legislator, then you have no executive experience. (If by chance you've done both, then you're an insider who can't pursue reform.) The only single job that provides both executive and foreign policy experience is, well, being president.

But Kinsley argues that while the Palin pick says little about the value of experience, it does say something about the McCain campaign. Regardless of whether experience is important or not, it was the McCain campaign's chief argument for McCain and against Obama. By choosing Palin, the campaign now seems to hold that experience isn't all that important, which means that they didn't really mean it in the first place. Kinsley calls it "lying." And that's what should be insulting.

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#39742 - 09/15/08 03:37 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: Daniel]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
Yes it should matter Dan. Well let's have President that will Not Pledge to the US Flag geez what's next let's change the name from US to Clueless Obama nation. This is America which is falling apart because there's this group and don't offend that group. Go back to being an American that's were you live right... I think the New Yorker magazine depicted Obama and wife accurately

Your rebuttals i find are boring ex "yes Obama's numbers don't add up but McCains are worse" well McCain can kick Obamma ass if you want to put it that way.

sure go ahead look what the candidates are going to do. Obama will just let Iran going back to chaos that it was just great.

Keep bringing up experience is what the dems are doing for Palin. So you want to compare look at your Democratic selection.

Yup Lincoln wasn't much of a president. if The Emancipation Proclamation was written before the civil war started then maybe Lincoln would have been an good president.
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#39744 - 09/15/08 04:14 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: talus]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
 Originally Posted By: talus
Yes it should matter Dan.


So, if you had a candidate who matched your views on the economy, on Iraq, on health care...you'd still vote against him or her because he or she wouldn't put his hand over his heart?

Moreover, the allegation that Obama doesn't say the Pledge is just false. But if people don't want to believe the facts, there's not much room for further discussion.

 Originally Posted By: talus
Your rebuttals i find are boring ex "yes Obama's numbers don't add up but McCains are worse" well McCain can kick Obamma ass if you want to put it that way.


Is that a response? If you want to discuss fiscal policy, let's discuss it. Again, I think it's a fact that McCain's budget numbers are more fiscally irresponsible than Obama's. But if that's what you want to vote for, that's your choice.

 Originally Posted By: talus
sure go ahead look what the candidates are going to do. Obama will just let Iran going back to chaos that it was just great.


I think you mean Iraq. And I believe that those who think we should stay indefinitely in Iraq should at least support raising our taxes to pay for it instead of borrowing the money from China.

Also, Obama has not proposed picking up and leaving. He has proposed an orderly withdrawal over a period of time. Some people think that's exactly what's needed to put pressure on the Iraqi government to get its act together. But reasonable people can differ as to what they think will happen.

As for Iran, McCain seems to support the policy of not engaging that nation at all. That's the same policy that hasn't worked for the past seven years, and I see no reason why it would work in the next four.

 Originally Posted By: talus
Keep bringing up experience is what the dems are doing for Palin. So you want to compare look at your Democratic selection.


I was arguing that experience was not a good indicator of performance. I was also arguing that the McCain campaign doesn't really mean it when they say experience is important. Read the Kinsley article I referenced, and let me know what you think. (Also, as Kinsley points out, when Republicans aren't touting the importance of experience, they're busy pushing term limits to ensure no one has it.)

 Originally Posted By: talus
Yup Lincoln wasn't much of a president. if The Emancipation Proclamation was written before the civil war started then maybe Lincoln would have been an good president.


Most historians put Lincoln at or near the top of the list. You're entitled to your opinion, but most people think he did a very good job in perhaps the most trying time in the history of the nation.

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#39747 - 09/15/08 04:35 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: talus]
mworking Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 764
 Originally Posted By: talus
Yes it should matter Dan. Well let's have President that will Not Pledge to the US Flag


Originally I thought you just forgot the wink on a smiley face, that is what this comment should have had. You know, it's not true.

 Quote:
Obama will just let Iran going back to chaos that it was just great.


Ouch just as embarrassing as some of the things I've accidentally written



Edited by mworking (09/15/08 04:44 PM)

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