Hey Sketchy John,

I won't deny what you see. I'm sure it's out there. But I know personally plenty of new climbers who frequent the Gunks. They're just the kind you hate - they probably climb almost as much in the gym as they do on real rock.

But they sure don't climb the way you think they do. And they don't have the attitude you think they do. They're thoughtful people who value their own lives. They know that trad climbing is not the same as the gym (duh). They work their way up through the grades, and rarely fall. They sew up the routes. They don't trust old fixed pins, and when they must rely on them to protect a crux sequence, they use a screamer just in case, and make sure they're ready to get on the route before they leave the ground. Ready to get on the route means they're solid at the grade, and can downclimb from the crux if need be. They don't start lead climbing until they've spent enough time on the ground building gear anchors that more experienced folks have given the a-ok that they feel confident in them.

You describe a bunch of morons who are bent on self destruction. You know any such people personally? Because I know a lot of beginner climbers, and none of them are anything like that.

GO

I agree with that sentiment. As a bonus it would serve to occupy sport climbers with a bad route that isn't much to climb other than the ease of clipping bolts, just like Sente.

Because they appreciate the difference between a bold route and a death route.

"I agree with that sentiment. As a bonus it would serve to occupy sport climbers with a bad route that isn't much to climb other than the ease of clipping bolts, just like Sente."

aw c'mon, i like Sente! It's fun, balancy climbing. What's not to like about it? Unless you just don't like the bolts? You're just being elitist!

"You're just being elitist!"

You say that like it's a bad thing . . .

Please the only reason Sente gets climbed is because it has bolts. If there were not bolts it certainly wouldn't get led and I doubt very much anyone would bother to set it up as a TR. Its not exactly a quality climb.

ahhh bullshit....i can think of a bunch of climbs that suck...sente isnt one of them.....though i think it would be better without or with fewer bolts....exactly the kind of face climbing thats fun when its runout....R rated would be a good sente...