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#41322 - 11/07/08 05:43 PM Re: small gear preferences [Re: rg@ofmc]
HR1 Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/20/08
Posts: 34
Loc: New Paltz
 Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc

I think the Petzl calculator is ok; sorry not to have a link but someone will, no doubt, post one. I'll consult the Goldstone calculator tonight when I get home and post some numbers.


http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportConseils?Conseil=56&Activite=15

The Petzl calculator seems to limit the force generated by a tube type belay device to ~2kN. This is kinda nice as far as limiting the forces on the gear, but has the side effect that the climber decks because of rope slippage on any fall greater than ~.8 Fall Factor for the 80 kg climber (or .75 FF for those of us who are more like 90 kg)

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#41323 - 11/07/08 06:13 PM Re: small gear preferences [Re: HR1]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
I quite like the #2 and #3 Ballnutz. I only carry the #1 when aid climbing.

Aside from that, in cams, I carry Aliens from black up.

And in RPs, I don't carry anything I particularly like. I use the BD micro-nuts, but find them way too hard. Will probably pick up the new DMM brass offsets when they come out, and hope I like them better.

What do other folks like for small nuts? (BD #4 and smaller)

GO

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#41327 - 11/07/08 07:45 PM Re: small gear preferences [Re: GOclimb]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Since brassies weigh so little and are soooo dependent on a great fit, I carry an ole RP, I think #4; all but the tiniest BDs and a #4 and #5 HB offset, that I've had for about 20 years. I may add another, larger RP and offset. I only seem to break them out when I'm really feeling the drop coming and have always been very grateful to have them. I will always prefer the siver and purple C3s when I can get a good placement, as they seem so much more stable in most circumstances. I love a great nut placement but seems that they are hard to find when getting down to the tiny stuff because the cracks are then fairly shallow and never seem to have the right taper to fit real well.

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#41329 - 11/07/08 07:55 PM Re: small gear preferences [Re: chip]
mworking Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 764
3 15 yr old HB curves. These confidnee inspiring nuts have the heaviest stainless cable you would want.

Also carrying Metolius Astro-Nuts but have climbed so little in recent years I won't comment till I use them more. I do remember liking them way more tha the BD micro that I also have but don't carry.

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#41331 - 11/07/08 08:41 PM Re: small gear preferences [Re: mworking]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
One of the difficulties in placing brass nuts and the like is that the cables are close enough to the nut size to get in the way of a taper or so thin they aren't worth carrying.

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#41388 - 11/10/08 06:18 PM Re: small gear preferences [Re: rg@ofmc]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
These assumptions mean that the leader fall impact must be less than 2.7 kN, and with the assumptions mentioned that corresponds to a fall factor of about 0.1.

What this means is that the piece is likely to break (assuming it stays in) if the leader advances more than a foot above the Ball Nut for every twenty feet of advance from the belay (a foot above the protection means that the tie-in is a foot above the protection).

.... (When doing this, the pieces have to be placed and set with their directions of pull in mind, because Ball Nuts do not seem to tolerate rotation very well.)


Putting these pieces together: it would seem that one should use at least some extension on Ballnutz, to prevent rope movement from nullifying the piece, especially since the unit itself is so stiff.

Yet, almost any extension renders the smaller sizes ... not so useful, according to the fall factor calculator: even an overhead piece, extended to your chest or waist, is often useless by the time you pass it.

Edit - add: I've climbed on the Superlight Rocks, which are nuts with one cable instead of two, and found I could fiddle them in where a cable kept a normal nut out. However, the single cable does mean a reduction in strength (see above): the smallest one, which I think is ~ the size of the largest BD micronut, clocks in at 4kN instead of 6-8 for the largest BD micronut. However, getting any nut in is preferable to no nut.


Edited by Julie (11/10/08 06:30 PM)

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#41395 - 11/10/08 07:14 PM Re: small gear preferences [Re: Julie]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2468
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
You don't need extension if you are climbing more or less directly over it. And given that, clipped short, it may be useless a foot or two below waist level anyway, there is really no need to arrange an extension in most cases. And if extension nonetheless seems worthwhile, you don't use it while the nut is in overhead mode, and only extend after you pass the placement. (This applies, of course, just as well to non-manky placements). A typical way to do this is to clip the overhead piece with a quickdraw and a long sling and then unclip the quickdraw from the rope as you move past.

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#41398 - 11/10/08 08:56 PM Re: small gear preferences [Re: rg@ofmc]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
Another way to get that marginal piece up into the better range is to equalize it with another piece. Even if the only other thing you can get in is a tiny nut in an ok placement, link 'em together with a crossed sling, and you're really increasing the chances of the the whole shebang holding a small fall.

Keep in mind, too, that this whole issue is specific for the smallest (#1) Ballnutz only. #2 Ballnutz are rated at 8kN. This is, typically, better than the equivalent sized cam, and should hold a moderate fall.

GO


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#41403 - 11/10/08 09:38 PM Re: small gear preferences [Re: Smike]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 319
The only time I've ever placed a C3, I exited the thin crack where I placed it and got above 15ft above on a Tuolumne slab (something on the south flank of Daff, I forget which line) into the glacial polish to a bolt, and THEN my belayer announced that it had fallen out. So I was at least 20ft out and looking at a plenty big ride. About the only time I remember a cam of any kind falling out of any kind of rock. The placement looked fine and I've certainly fallen on and not blown some that seemed worse. Yes, cams tip out all the time, but I'm going to blame the tool and I am, of course, a bad workman. Net result, they're not high on my list of faves though many, as here, swear by them. I do love that Black Alien.

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#41451 - 11/11/08 08:48 PM Re: small gear preferences [Re: ianmanger]
Jim Lawyer Offline
member

Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 157
Loc: Pompey, NY
Is anyone making the equivalent of HB brass offset nuts? (I understand HB isn't around anymore.) I have two sets and after 15 years, they are pretty ratty.

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