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#41654 - 11/14/08 12:54 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: gunks]
Dana Offline

Registered: 07/13/00
Posts: 619
A few routes that are less popular, but worthwhile nonetheless and fit your criteria:

Hang Ten in the Nears
Fat Stick Direct in the Nears
Headless Horseman
Yo Mama (a bit strenuous, but well protected and not too hard for the grade)

I always felt that Nosedive is a good introduction to the grade, although the first bit has become a bit polished and takes care.

#41656 - 11/14/08 01:37 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: nonya]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
My $0.02 on some of these:

City Streets has gear less than 2 ft under the pin.
Wegetables in not IMO 5.10 at the initial "crux". My partner who'd never managed a 10 before got through there with relative ease. Others I've watched have also breezed that bit. The real deal is fighting through the pumpy jugs above; that's where folks fail. And there's bomber micros for the start anyway.
Fat Stick Direct is a sure ankle breaker on the slab at the crux. Maybe I need to go take a look at it again, but there is absolutely no gear to prevent a bad landing at the crux.
Hang Ten is a good suggestion. A different sort of move.
Simple Suff is good if you're adept at stemming. Bring small stoppers(!) and don't worry about the initial unprotected runout to the first gear - the climbing there is easy enough.
The righthand "Mantle" climb was my first ever 10 onsight; I'd recommend it.
Transcom has a load of stout climbing on it - I'd save that for later. That low slab spooks me every time.

#41657 - 11/14/08 01:42 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: nonya]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
 Originally Posted By: nonya
I agree, the pin did look good. The truth is I don't know how to evaluate pins and the move was hard enough for me that I didn't want to continue without more gear.

<thread hijack>
Without a hammer and knowing what you are doing, it's pretty near impossible to adequately evaluate a pin* - especially if said pin is the only thing preventing possible injury. In the Gunks at this point, I wouldn't trust any pin as my only piece.

*: Yeah, if you're experienced and know what to listen for, tapping the pin with a biner might give a general indication.
</thread hijack>
- Marc

#41663 - 11/14/08 01:34 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: gunks]
Daniel Offline

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
Not that I've led that many tens, but....

Simple Suff was my first 10. Yes it's sustained, but good gear. The trickiest part is getting established in the corner, but I thought the pro was sufficient and I wasn't all that nervous on it. Once you're in the corner, gear all the way. Not your typical Gunks pitch, but lots of fun.

Retribution has good if slightly tricky gear at the crux (it was my second 10 lead). You can go up to place it and come back down for a rest before committing. PM for gear beta.

Perhaps someone else can verify if heard Criss Cross Direct is best done with doubles. I was told that using a single risks groundfall if one misses the clip at the crux and then falls with the rope extended, and that using the second rope to make the clip avoids that problem.

#41664 - 11/14/08 02:08 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Daniel]
socialist1 Offline

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 147
Loc: New Brunswick, NJ

I would second what most have said here. In addition, I would consider Nosedive. There is tons of gear on the thing and a few rests along the way.

I second (which I dont think anyone else has) the recommendation of Falled on Account of Strain. Nice 9 climbing with decent pro up to a huge and well protected roof. Nothing but air there. Height dependent (10a or 9+ if tall, 10b or harder if short). Do as one pitch, 60m rope ok.

As far as the Simple Suff debate: gear is great. Only worry is pulling into the corner, if you blow it there you might hit the ledge with rope stretch. Fine for a first 10 for sure.

#41665 - 11/14/08 02:29 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Daniel]
GOclimb Offline

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2362
Loc: Boston
Well, I found a printout I'd made of all of the collected comments from the posters I respect (from the earlier thread). Amazingly, even Google can't find that thread. Probably disappeared when Evan moved to the new server.

Anyway, I'll type in my notes as I have time today. Here are the first three routes (in alphabetical order):


Birdie Party
RG: 5.8 below, easily protected 5.10 crux (but harder than 10a) with air fall, a bit runout above, depending on how calm and collected you are.

Criss Cross
Coppertone: recommended it.
BobbyS: recommended it
johnnybfishman: recommended it
LesterLeblanc: CC is obvious for all the obvious reasons... crux at start and well-protected and fairly easy for the grade. Not sure what the direct version is. When I did it, I went straight up, past a 5.8R section after the crux to the last roof. A small Alien would make that R section more like PG now.
Steven Cherry: Safe 10s that aren't at the hard end of the 10 scale include Criss Cross Direct.
Crackers: lots of good fall potential. Sharp edges around, but you'd probably go down clean.
RG: A good choice, except for the fact that the middle of this route has poorly protected 5.7--5.8.

Bobbys: recommended it.
Mike Rawdon: recommended it.
LLB: Doublissima because it eats plenty of bomber placements and is more of an endurance issue than a technical one.... The pitch gets technically easier as it goes, but remains pumpy right up until you hit the ledge. Doublissima is not more than 10b technically. But endurance is an issue. Very well protected. Probably best saved for later. The moves off the ledge to the first gear placement are not 5.10, but they require careful climbing. A fall here would not be pleasant.
Steven Cherry: Some other routes named aren't easy 10s either [such as] Doublissima.
Nerdom: Though I've only followed it, I would say that Doubleissima fits the bill pretty nicely. Except that falling on the first 8-10 feet of the second pitch might be a dicey proposition. (see dalguard's post in "Worst Belay" thread). After that, it's pump city, the gear's good, and the falls are all clean, 'cause it's really damn steep! (Of course, the problem is placing the gear under these conditions!)
RG: Save this one for later. It is a great climb, but you have to work very hard to get good pro at the start of the second pitch, and the first pitch is poorly protected 5.8. Goin all the way to the GT ledge in one pitch from the ground is a safer alternative that eliminates the factor 2 fall possibility. In this case, you will need a very long runner from the placements that are usually the belay anchors.



#41668 - 11/14/08 03:53 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: GOclimb]
dalguard Offline

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
I thought I had a TR the whole time on Simple Suff. Not sure where the ankle-breaking crux is. There is a part down low on the "approach" to the corner where you think there's no gear and a tricky move but I believe both good gear and an easy move can be found with some tinkering.

The scary part down low on Wegetables isn't the 5.10 part but it is scary and it's not 5.7. So I guess use your judgement. You can back down if you decide you don't like it. Once past those moves there's no end to the gear.

I've spent a lot of time hanging off the pin on City Streets. Not saying it'll hold up forever but it's literally at your waist. And yeah, there's a decent nut not far below it if you want backup.

I've led the right mantle but I'd followed it a couple of times and learned the trick and was still scared as hell. Having a hard time figuring out who Nonya is. Mark? (But Steven had to take over that lead for me.) Scott? (I don't think we did the mantles together.) Anyway, I'm not saying the left mantle is easier but the fall is much, much safer.

Doubleissima is not a starter 10. Birdie Party might be the most sandbagged 10a at the Gunks but it does seem to be a very clean fall.

#41669 - 11/14/08 03:57 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: dalguard]
nonya Offline

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Gardiner, NY
 Originally Posted By: dalguard
Having a hard time figuring out who Nonya is. Mark? (But Steven had to take over that lead for me.) Scott? (I don't think we did the mantles together.)

Oops. Sorry, I thought you knew (I don't know why I thought that - I hardly ever post). Anyway, It's Scott.

Edited by nonya (11/14/08 04:01 PM)

#41671 - 11/14/08 04:16 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: nonya]
dalguard Offline

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
I don't think we've done the mantles together but we've probably discussed them. Yeah, the right mantle is kind of height dependent but I think you have to be pretty tall before it's really comfortable. It's a sketchy move with gear at your knees and a slab beneath you, but I'm a coward. I'd rather do harder moves with closer gear any day.

#41676 - 11/14/08 04:37 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: dalguard]
GOclimb Offline

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2362
Loc: Boston
Okay, again, from that old thread, here's comments on three more routes:


Frustration Syndrome
Coppertone: recommended it.
BobbyS: Recommended it.
LLB: Frustration Syndrome is a great "easy" 10, but the opening is not that well-protected. However, the climbing for he first 12 feet is pretty easy. But you'll find yourself having to come in from the left without a lot of gear. But once you get into the small corner system, you'll be in the groove.
Crackers: Lots of good gear to create short nice falls.
RG: The crux good gear must be placed from a strenuous position.

Never Never Land
Coppertone: recommended it.
BobbyS: recommended it.
Steven Cherry: There really aren't many easy 10s, come to think of it. Maybe Never Never Land.
LLB: Never Never Land is great, but I don't consider it that well protected as you have to rely on a very old bolt at the crux.
MarcC: New Metolius 3/8" x 3-1/2" circa 1997... but you can get pretty scraped up if you blow the consecutive 5.9 pinched-crystal moves, as many have done, immediately above.
Judge: I could be wrong, but I remember it being one hard move above the bolt, then a monster horizontal. It's been a few years since I've been on it.
RG: There is run-out 5.9 above the bolt and an ankle-breaker start.

Nose Dive
Coppertone: recommended it.
Brondog: recommended it.
Dan0930: How about nose dive... much nicer than retribution and no move harder than 5.9. Bomber gear the whole way.
LLB: It does include 10-12 of unprotected climbing at the start. As for entry-level 5.10s, it's hard to beat teh sister climbs Retribution and Nosedive. Nosedive is a little more involved, a little more endurance-oriented as the crux is much higher up than Retribution. But once past the first 12 ft the gear is excellent. A near-blind nut placement behind the big flake pros the crux, but if you get the right size in it is bomber.
Dizzy: Nosedive is a fairly hard, strenuous 10 that is better for when you are a bit more solid at the grade.
Crackers: Has a good fall at the top.
RG: Good choice, as long as you hang on to place the good pro at the crux. The start is run-out 5.8, however.


I'll type more later.

Please forgive any typos - I'm sure they're mine, not the original authors'.


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