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#41610 - 11/13/08 07:35 PM 5.10s with good pros at the crux
gunks Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/26/01
Posts: 83
Loc: Rosendale, NY
I'll be breaking into 5.10s next season. Any suggestions on "easy" 10s with good pros at the crux?

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#41613 - 11/13/08 07:59 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: gunks]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4269
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Try Again, if you trust the pin (I did!)
Criss Cross Direct (low crux though, so have your belayer on high alert)
Turdland Direct (ignore the 10d rating, it's a bolt at your chest!) Get familiar with the route by first doing the 5.9 version.
P-38
Lost City Crack (short jamming crux, totally sew-up-able after the start)

I'm sure others will add to these.

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#41614 - 11/13/08 08:09 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: gunks]
nonya Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Gardiner, NY
Here's some easy and/or one move wonder with good gear tens:

Dis-Mantle: It has one hard move that easier if tall (I'm 5'8" and I can reach. If you're shorter than that it may be harder). If you mess up the crux it's a very short fall onto your gear. There is a 5.8 roof at the top that is either g or pg (depending on how you feel about a certain placement.).

Criss Cross: great gear. Well defined crux at the bottom. The rest is 5.8 or so.

Tulip Mussel Garden: This is 10+, but it's just one or two hard moves with great gear. There is some runout 5.7 or 5.8 at the bottom, but nothing too bad.

Last Frontier: The gear is great, but I found the crux really awkward. There may be a graceful way to do this, but I didn't find it. Now that I think about it, it isn't a great first 10, but try it anyway, it's a safe lead.


Edited by nonya (11/13/08 08:37 PM)

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#41615 - 11/13/08 08:14 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: nonya]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Retribution (its easy for 10b if you do it right, gear at your waist on the crux) Above it fun 5.9 ish.

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#41616 - 11/13/08 08:18 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Mike Rawdon]
nonya Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Gardiner, NY
Mike,

P38 is a great climb, and very G, but I don't think it's a good first 10. The gear placements are a little strenuous and there's lots of 9ish climbing before the crux and then there's some run-out easier stuff at the top.

Ah well, no real harm if he tries it, but I still think it might be too much for a first ten.

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#41618 - 11/13/08 08:44 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: nonya]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
I second Tulip Mussel Garden. Clean fall (I know, I took the fall) as long as you don't stick your leg forward or something

Add to the list:
Beatle Brow Bulge
Crass
Elder Cleavage, P1. (Bring a red Alien)


Edited by pedestrian (11/13/08 08:46 PM)

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#41619 - 11/13/08 08:51 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: pedestrian]
fotovult Offline
member

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 126
Loc: ny
never never land - 10a and well protected

check the "breaking into the grade" section under climbing on this site
_________________________
www.chrisvultaggio.com

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#41620 - 11/13/08 09:02 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: nonya]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4269
Loc: Poughkeepsie
 Originally Posted By: nonya
Mike,

P38 is a great climb, and very G, but I don't think it's a good first 10. The gear placements are a little strenuous and there's lots of 9ish climbing before the crux and then there's some run-out easier stuff at the top.

Ah well, no real harm if he tries it, but I still think it might be too much for a first ten.


Yea, you're right. Oh well, we all get to put one climb on our list that shouldn't be. I actually started typing Retribution, but didn't list it since so many people try to tackle the hang the 5.11 way.

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#41621 - 11/13/08 09:03 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: nonya]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2354
Loc: Boston
Dammit, I asked almost the identical question on Gunks.com, and got back a ton of fantastic advice. I wish I could share it with you, but the search feature doesn't go back that far!!! \:\(

This was from back when Dizzy was posting - I remember a lot of good suggestions from her. Actually, there was a ton more activity on the site back then.

I'll rack my brains and see what I can recall.

GO

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#41623 - 11/13/08 09:09 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: fotovult]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
If Dis-Mantle is the righthand mantle, I couldn't agree less. OTOH, the lefthand mantle is a good choice.

Depending on how you rate things, both Bonnie's Direct and The Dangler are good choices.

Retribution was my first one. Last Frontier is the most godawful climb in the Gunks (unless you like that kind of thing).

Some others not mentioned:

Simple Suff
Size Matters (grey Dick)
City Streets (harder if shorter but doable at 5' 4")
Wegetables

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#41628 - 11/13/08 09:20 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: dalguard]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3763
Loc: Ulster County, NY
I'll disagree with Wegetables and Simple Suff. Both have ankle breaking potential at the crux. Simple Suff is slightly better, but still very continuous for the grade. Beatle Brow Bulge is a great choice. Barely 10a in my opinion. Lost City Crack would get a second too. Retribtion I would suggest because it protects well and has a short crux. Criss Cross is a good one.

RR

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#41630 - 11/13/08 09:21 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: dalguard]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
the thought of leading simple suff scares the bejeesus out of me, which probably means that I need to get onto it again and work it into submission. got up it, on toprope, think I even flashed it, but the moves felt tenuous as all hell.

I forgot city streets! That's an excellent climb. when you're 6'3". It's definitely doable if very short, but it's a stretch. That climb is all about wingspan.

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#41635 - 11/13/08 09:44 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: dalguard]
nonya Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Gardiner, NY
Hi Dawn,

I'm pretty sure I was with you when I first did Dis-Mantle. (I lead "Dis" and you lead "Dat"). You think the left one is easier than the right?!? Yikes. It's not even close for me. Maybe it's a height thing?

Bonnie's Direct is a *great* suggestion. I forgot about that one.
City Streets is good if you trust the pin. I'm completely paranoid about pins so I took half a day rigging up some overly complicated protection so I felt better.

Last Frontier is godawful climbing, for sure. I suggested it because it is very safe and if you're willing to suffer you'll get the tick mark.

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#41636 - 11/13/08 09:48 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: RangerRob]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2082
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: RangerRob
I'll disagree with Wegetables and Simple Suff. Both have ankle breaking potential at the crux.

Do other folks agree with Rob here? My end-of-season goal (that didn't happen) was to get on Simple Suff, but ...

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#41638 - 11/13/08 09:51 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Julie]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Wegetables is an easy 10, but a bit tricky on the pro down low. (There is a perfect piece that protects it, but I don't want to give away all the fun)

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#41640 - 11/13/08 09:55 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Julie]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2674
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Simple suff is pretty continuous. I was following and thought how glad I was not to have to place the gear.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Stannards Roof. Great pro and the cleanest fall you will ever have(which I sampled, myself).

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#41642 - 11/13/08 10:07 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: GOclimb]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
 Originally Posted By: GOclimb
Dammit, I asked almost the identical question on Gunks.com, and got back a ton of fantastic advice. I wish I could share it with you, but the search feature doesn't go back that far!!! \:\(

This was from back when Dizzy was posting - I remember a lot of good suggestions from her. Actually, there was a ton more activity on the site back then.

I'll rack my brains and see what I can recall.

GO


You can only search a range of 3 years, but can change the range to "newer than 6 years, older than 3 years" and so on to get older posts.

I was thinking of Simple Suff a my first 10 lead a few weeks ago, but after standing at the base and looking at it, decided I'd try something else. So a list would help me as well.
_________________________


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#41643 - 11/13/08 10:09 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: nonya]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
 Originally Posted By: nonya
City Streets is good if you trust the pin. I'm completely paranoid about pins so I took half a day rigging up some overly complicated protection so I felt better.


I've seen that pin hold a fall, and it looks pretty good... memory is hazy but I think there might be a good grey alien backup right next to it. This was not obvious to me the first few times I went up the climb, usually one is too concerned with making the long reach to investigate over to the side there.

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#41646 - 11/13/08 10:24 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: pedestrian]
nonya Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Gardiner, NY
 Originally Posted By: pedestrian
 Originally Posted By: nonya
City Streets is good if you trust the pin. I'm completely paranoid about pins so I took half a day rigging up some overly complicated protection so I felt better.


I've seen that pin hold a fall, and it looks pretty good... memory is hazy but I think there might be a good grey alien backup right next to it. This was not obvious to me the first few times I went up the climb, usually one is too concerned with making the long reach to investigate over to the side there.


I agree, the pin did look good. The truth is I don't know how to evaluate pins and the move was hard enough for me that I didn't want to continue without more gear.

I don't mean to scare anyone away from the climb. Just be aware that the crux is protected by a pin and while you can back it up, it took a long time to rig up something I was happy with. Of course, there may be better gear that I missed. Wouldn't be the first time.

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#41647 - 11/13/08 10:50 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: nonya]
sketchy john Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Long Island New York
Simple suff has no real crux. It IS sustained. You can zip it up with thin nuts if you have good endurance in great stems or you can climb from stance to stance if you're comfortable above gear. The legs take the brunt of this effort.

Falled on account of strain has good gear at the start of the roof (2 cams to start then a yellow Metolius on first tier up left). I think the start of the roof is the crux feeling around blind move above your head to find the jug. the 5.9 P1 is great if you can follow the wandering line. Best as one pitch.

Transcon has great gear with great rests between the 5.10 climbing though the first move is tricky (gear better up under than out right). The slab up top is a bit run out.

Doubletissima has great gear the whole way but pumpy as a link-up.

Rediculissima is fantastic steep face climbing. The series of finger locks are glorious.

Stay away from Graveyard shift, tough shift, the spring, the winter, E.D., and nurses aid.

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#41654 - 11/14/08 12:54 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: gunks]
Dana Offline
addict

Registered: 07/13/00
Posts: 619
A few routes that are less popular, but worthwhile nonetheless and fit your criteria:

Hang Ten in the Nears
Fat Stick Direct in the Nears
Headless Horseman
Yo Mama (a bit strenuous, but well protected and not too hard for the grade)

I always felt that Nosedive is a good introduction to the grade, although the first bit has become a bit polished and takes care.

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#41656 - 11/14/08 01:37 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: nonya]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4269
Loc: Poughkeepsie
My $0.02 on some of these:

City Streets has gear less than 2 ft under the pin.
Wegetables in not IMO 5.10 at the initial "crux". My partner who'd never managed a 10 before got through there with relative ease. Others I've watched have also breezed that bit. The real deal is fighting through the pumpy jugs above; that's where folks fail. And there's bomber micros for the start anyway.
Fat Stick Direct is a sure ankle breaker on the slab at the crux. Maybe I need to go take a look at it again, but there is absolutely no gear to prevent a bad landing at the crux.
Hang Ten is a good suggestion. A different sort of move.
Simple Suff is good if you're adept at stemming. Bring small stoppers(!) and don't worry about the initial unprotected runout to the first gear - the climbing there is easy enough.
The righthand "Mantle" climb was my first ever 10 onsight; I'd recommend it.
Transcom has a load of stout climbing on it - I'd save that for later. That low slab spooks me every time.

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#41657 - 11/14/08 01:42 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: nonya]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
 Originally Posted By: nonya
I agree, the pin did look good. The truth is I don't know how to evaluate pins and the move was hard enough for me that I didn't want to continue without more gear.

<thread hijack>
Without a hammer and knowing what you are doing, it's pretty near impossible to adequately evaluate a pin* - especially if said pin is the only thing preventing possible injury. In the Gunks at this point, I wouldn't trust any pin as my only piece.

*: Yeah, if you're experienced and know what to listen for, tapping the pin with a biner might give a general indication.
</thread hijack>
_________________________
- Marc

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#41663 - 11/14/08 01:34 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: gunks]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
Not that I've led that many tens, but....

Simple Suff was my first 10. Yes it's sustained, but good gear. The trickiest part is getting established in the corner, but I thought the pro was sufficient and I wasn't all that nervous on it. Once you're in the corner, gear all the way. Not your typical Gunks pitch, but lots of fun.

Retribution has good if slightly tricky gear at the crux (it was my second 10 lead). You can go up to place it and come back down for a rest before committing. PM for gear beta.

Perhaps someone else can verify if heard Criss Cross Direct is best done with doubles. I was told that using a single risks groundfall if one misses the clip at the crux and then falls with the rope extended, and that using the second rope to make the clip avoids that problem.

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#41664 - 11/14/08 02:08 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Daniel]
socialist1 Offline
member

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 145
Loc: New Brunswick, NJ

I would second what most have said here. In addition, I would consider Nosedive. There is tons of gear on the thing and a few rests along the way.

I second (which I dont think anyone else has) the recommendation of Falled on Account of Strain. Nice 9 climbing with decent pro up to a huge and well protected roof. Nothing but air there. Height dependent (10a or 9+ if tall, 10b or harder if short). Do as one pitch, 60m rope ok.

As far as the Simple Suff debate: gear is great. Only worry is pulling into the corner, if you blow it there you might hit the ledge with rope stretch. Fine for a first 10 for sure.

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#41665 - 11/14/08 02:29 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Daniel]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2354
Loc: Boston
Well, I found a printout I'd made of all of the collected comments from the posters I respect (from the earlier thread). Amazingly, even Google can't find that thread. Probably disappeared when Evan moved gunks.com to the new server.

Anyway, I'll type in my notes as I have time today. Here are the first three routes (in alphabetical order):

-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-

Birdie Party
------------
RG: 5.8 below, easily protected 5.10 crux (but harder than 10a) with air fall, a bit runout above, depending on how calm and collected you are.

Criss Cross
-----------
Coppertone: recommended it.
BobbyS: recommended it
johnnybfishman: recommended it
LesterLeblanc: CC is obvious for all the obvious reasons... crux at start and well-protected and fairly easy for the grade. Not sure what the direct version is. When I did it, I went straight up, past a 5.8R section after the crux to the last roof. A small Alien would make that R section more like PG now.
Steven Cherry: Safe 10s that aren't at the hard end of the 10 scale include Criss Cross Direct.
Crackers: lots of good fall potential. Sharp edges around, but you'd probably go down clean.
RG: A good choice, except for the fact that the middle of this route has poorly protected 5.7--5.8.

Doubleissima
------------
Bobbys: recommended it.
Mike Rawdon: recommended it.
LLB: Doublissima because it eats plenty of bomber placements and is more of an endurance issue than a technical one.... The pitch gets technically easier as it goes, but remains pumpy right up until you hit the ledge. Doublissima is not more than 10b technically. But endurance is an issue. Very well protected. Probably best saved for later. The moves off the ledge to the first gear placement are not 5.10, but they require careful climbing. A fall here would not be pleasant.
Steven Cherry: Some other routes named aren't easy 10s either [such as] Doublissima.
Nerdom: Though I've only followed it, I would say that Doubleissima fits the bill pretty nicely. Except that falling on the first 8-10 feet of the second pitch might be a dicey proposition. (see dalguard's post in "Worst Belay" thread). After that, it's pump city, the gear's good, and the falls are all clean, 'cause it's really damn steep! (Of course, the problem is placing the gear under these conditions!)
RG: Save this one for later. It is a great climb, but you have to work very hard to get good pro at the start of the second pitch, and the first pitch is poorly protected 5.8. Goin all the way to the GT ledge in one pitch from the ground is a safer alternative that eliminates the factor 2 fall possibility. In this case, you will need a very long runner from the placements that are usually the belay anchors.

-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-

GO

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#41668 - 11/14/08 03:53 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: GOclimb]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
I thought I had a TR the whole time on Simple Suff. Not sure where the ankle-breaking crux is. There is a part down low on the "approach" to the corner where you think there's no gear and a tricky move but I believe both good gear and an easy move can be found with some tinkering.

The scary part down low on Wegetables isn't the 5.10 part but it is scary and it's not 5.7. So I guess use your judgement. You can back down if you decide you don't like it. Once past those moves there's no end to the gear.

I've spent a lot of time hanging off the pin on City Streets. Not saying it'll hold up forever but it's literally at your waist. And yeah, there's a decent nut not far below it if you want backup.

I've led the right mantle but I'd followed it a couple of times and learned the trick and was still scared as hell. Having a hard time figuring out who Nonya is. Mark? (But Steven had to take over that lead for me.) Scott? (I don't think we did the mantles together.) Anyway, I'm not saying the left mantle is easier but the fall is much, much safer.

Doubleissima is not a starter 10. Birdie Party might be the most sandbagged 10a at the Gunks but it does seem to be a very clean fall.

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#41669 - 11/14/08 03:57 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: dalguard]
nonya Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Gardiner, NY
 Originally Posted By: dalguard
Having a hard time figuring out who Nonya is. Mark? (But Steven had to take over that lead for me.) Scott? (I don't think we did the mantles together.)


Oops. Sorry, I thought you knew (I don't know why I thought that - I hardly ever post). Anyway, It's Scott.


Edited by nonya (11/14/08 04:01 PM)

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#41671 - 11/14/08 04:16 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: nonya]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
I don't think we've done the mantles together but we've probably discussed them. Yeah, the right mantle is kind of height dependent but I think you have to be pretty tall before it's really comfortable. It's a sketchy move with gear at your knees and a slab beneath you, but I'm a coward. I'd rather do harder moves with closer gear any day.

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#41676 - 11/14/08 04:37 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: dalguard]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2354
Loc: Boston
Okay, again, from that old thread, here's comments on three more routes:

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Frustration Syndrome
---------------------
Coppertone: recommended it.
BobbyS: Recommended it.
LLB: Frustration Syndrome is a great "easy" 10, but the opening is not that well-protected. However, the climbing for he first 12 feet is pretty easy. But you'll find yourself having to come in from the left without a lot of gear. But once you get into the small corner system, you'll be in the groove.
Crackers: Lots of good gear to create short nice falls.
RG: The crux good gear must be placed from a strenuous position.

Never Never Land
----------------
Coppertone: recommended it.
BobbyS: recommended it.
Steven Cherry: There really aren't many easy 10s, come to think of it. Maybe Never Never Land.
LLB: Never Never Land is great, but I don't consider it that well protected as you have to rely on a very old bolt at the crux.
MarcC: New Metolius 3/8" x 3-1/2" circa 1997... but you can get pretty scraped up if you blow the consecutive 5.9 pinched-crystal moves, as many have done, immediately above.
Judge: I could be wrong, but I remember it being one hard move above the bolt, then a monster horizontal. It's been a few years since I've been on it.
RG: There is run-out 5.9 above the bolt and an ankle-breaker start.

Nose Dive
-----------
Coppertone: recommended it.
Brondog: recommended it.
Dan0930: How about nose dive... much nicer than retribution and no move harder than 5.9. Bomber gear the whole way.
LLB: It does include 10-12 of unprotected climbing at the start. As for entry-level 5.10s, it's hard to beat teh sister climbs Retribution and Nosedive. Nosedive is a little more involved, a little more endurance-oriented as the crux is much higher up than Retribution. But once past the first 12 ft the gear is excellent. A near-blind nut placement behind the big flake pros the crux, but if you get the right size in it is bomber.
Dizzy: Nosedive is a fairly hard, strenuous 10 that is better for when you are a bit more solid at the grade.
Crackers: Has a good fall at the top.
RG: Good choice, as long as you hang on to place the good pro at the crux. The start is run-out 5.8, however.

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

I'll type more later.

Please forgive any typos - I'm sure they're mine, not the original authors'.

GO

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#41746 - 11/15/08 03:40 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: GOclimb]
johnnyontherocks Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/06/00
Posts: 792
Loc: Bethlehem Pa
As Far As City Streets goes you can turn a # 6 BD nut on its side in the horn to make the pin unnessasary it take a little fiddlin but its bomber and remember to bump the left hand sorry too much beta. the easyiest 10 I have done thus far is hang ten in the nears, it is a little run out after the crux. Nose dive has great gear great rests but has at least two or three moves of ten. Retro has good gear going and at the crux( green alien) but a little tricky above for me at least for solid gear.Wegtables after the first moves which can be scary( # 4 or 5 HB brassie offset) is totally bomber. Best protected is The Dangler right ROB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________________
Johnny on the Rocks
Cosmic Hero

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#41866 - 11/20/08 04:32 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: johnnyontherocks]
jason1 Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 841
Loc: moab
slightly roddey?
or
trans con
or
disney point....
or
sonya...
or
outter space direct....

i thought welcome was pretty good....

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#41878 - 11/21/08 12:00 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: jason1]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
Slightly Roddey no longer has an anchor but I suppose it's all pretty easy up there so you can wander around until you find one. I thought it was 11 though.

Sonja certainly fits the bill. I didn't think of it because I hate it, but it fits the bill.

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#41880 - 11/21/08 05:03 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: dalguard]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
friends don't let friends climb sonja.

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#41881 - 11/21/08 06:23 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: dalguard]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
 Originally Posted By: dalguard
Slightly Roddey no longer has an anchor but I suppose it's all pretty easy up there so you can wander around until you find one. I thought it was 11 though.

The OP said "...breaking into 10's..." and "...looking for easy 10s with good pro...". Slightly Roddy is neither. While the pro is OK, it's hard to place due to the strenuous positions. Where you get pro and the distances involved make it a potentially unsafe fall, and, as dalguard mentioned, it's not an easy 10 - 10d/11a.
_________________________
- Marc

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#41889 - 11/21/08 05:54 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: MarcC]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2354
Loc: Boston
Okay, again, from that old thread, here's the last four routes that were commented on:

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
P-38
---------
Coppertone: recommended it

BobbyS: Recommended it

LesterLB: Not a big fand of P-38 as an intro to 10s. Seen too many 5.10 newbie leaders turn an ankle falling off the opening moves. But people seem to love this one.

Crackers: imho, ends with a slab. The beginning takes (for instance, YMMV) a honking big cam in a horizontal, then a blue black alien offset and then a blue or black alien or a bomber nut, by which point you're about twelve feet plus off the deck.

RG: I don't remember much about this route. A classic it ain't.

Retribution
--------------
bobbys: recommended it

Coppertone: recommended it

Steven Cherry: recommended it

Crackers: well, that wouldn't be one I would pick to huck on.

LLB: As for entry-level 5.10s it's hard to beat the sister climbs Retribution and Nosedive. Nosedive is a little more involved, a little more endurance-oriented as the crux is much higher up than Retribution. But once past the first 12 ft the gear is excellent. A near-blind nut placement behind the big flake pros the crux, but if you get the right size in it is bomber.

dan0930: How about nose dive... much nicer than retribution and no move harder than 5.9 bomber gear the whole way

yorick: if cracks/dihedrals are your thing, there's really nothing but simple suff and retribution/nosedive in that range...

Dizzy: Retribution is pretty much a one hit wonder and I think you could do better.

RG: Good choice. Very short crux followed by sustained 5.8. My first 5.10 lead in the Gunks, sometime in the early sixties, seconded by Yvon Choinard.

Simple Suff
------------
Phlan: some people don't like the start, but it's really not so bad if you are confident stemming and even a chicken like me has led it more than once and didn't have a problem with the gear. Bring LOTS of small wires, double or maybe even triple on the small to medium sizes. It's a sew up.

Steven Cherry: Good climbers have gotten hurt on Simple Suff. It's a great route, but the start isn't well-protected, and anyway it's not an easy 10, even though it has a 10a rating.

oenophore: I can't imagine anyone getting hurt on Simple Suff. Are you sure? It's not an easy ten; it's a good nine. Amazing how people can differ on such things!

Steven cherry: I personally know a climber who was hurt on Simple Suff. He wasn't the only one in the past several years. (Further back someone took a very very bad fall and ripped all his gear. That was bad gear placement, not a problem with the start, though the difficulty of placing a good multidirectional first piece might have exacerbated the problem of bad placements.) As to the rating, we've had several threads where people have called Simple Suff a hard 10, some have said it's closer to 10c than 10a. While others defend the 10a rating (including me), you're the first person I can remember here to say it's a 9.

RR: I fall in to the "Simple Suff is a 10c route" category myself. The start is what really gets me. I get all pumped out protecting the start and then have a pump fest on my hands for the rest of the pitch. Although, for someone who is good at stemming this shouldn't feel harder than 10a. It is amazing how people differ on this.

BobbyS: Simple Stuff, 5.10c, are you serious. Tennish anyone is 5.10c, ... and I could probably name another 30 5.10's that are harder and more involved than Simple Stuff. And getting a multi-directional piece in at the beginning of SS, just stick a small cam in there or equalize some stoppers, bring a few extra in small size cams if you have them.

LLB: I'm one of those people who think Simple Suff is not a good entry 5.10. The gear is not really there at the start. It's 5.10a IF you hit every stem opportunity, but few new 5.10 climbers manage that. And BTW... for anyone embarking on Simple Suff, don't forget to give a top-rope whirl on Kevin Bein's 11d on the right side of the Simple Suff corner. Excellent steep face climbing!

Mark Heyman: <snip> Nevertheless, I know a climber I respect who injured himself at the start of Simple Stuff. That's two so far, any others?

Yorick: A california climber wanted to know what the next, similar but tad harder route was after he cruised ant's line... i suggested simple suff... he busted his leg...

Crackers: Simple Suff protects really really well if you've got the guns to hang in and protect it. Lots of people don't The falls are pretty clean on it.

RG: This climb is more reminiscent of, say, Eldorado than the Gunks, requiring good stemming technique and a cool head. No way it is 5.9, but it ain't hard 10 either. I think the opening moves are reasonably but not perfectly protectable. There are no placements that can be made from restful positions.

Transcon
------------
Mike Rawdon: The roof on Transcon is a long reach but certainly not harder than 5.8. Then you get a bomber cam at your left shoulder. THEN you make the awkward [beta deleted] move to stand up in the corner. A fall here would be clean air with the rope safely off to the side. The "scary 5.8 section" at the top would not be a good place to fall. But one could conceivably avoid that by stepping right to the El Kabong (?) anchor that's just a few feet away at the top of the corner. This all assumes one survives the opening slab of course.

Crackers: Transcon would be good on top, but i've seen really stupid falls that were really scary on the bottom...

RG: The final 15--20 feet of Transcon is run-out 5.8--5.9 protected with a small brassy---if you find the placement. The opening slab is well protected if you are good at getting good pro. In other words, it is easy but avoidable to put in questionable gear here. The move over the roof is protected by a fixed pin---who knows how good it is? It takes work to back it up with a small cam. At least use a screamer.

LLB: I always remember pulling up into the roof and getting a good cam in there before having to make the moves to get over it. Am I not remembering it that well?

GO

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#41890 - 11/21/08 07:36 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: GOclimb]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2354
Loc: Boston
From my own limited experience on 10s at the Gunks, I don't have much to add beyond what has been said.

One route no-one has suggested: Feast of Fools. Good gear right at the crux roof. Unfortunately, nothing after that for a bodylength, but I think a fall from up in the crux would be totally clean. Relatively easy for a 10. And superb climbing.

Unfortunately, I wasn't super-psyched about the tiny gear on P2. I was very pleased not to have tested it. But as the crux of P2 is perfectly visible from the P1 anchor, you can always bail from the bolts if you don't like the look of it.

GO

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#41893 - 11/22/08 12:02 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: pedestrian]
jason1 Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 841
Loc: moab
 Originally Posted By: pedestrian
friends don't let friends climb sonja.


lol....

slightly's a ten.... and not to hard to protect

i kinda thought P38 was harder...

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#41894 - 11/22/08 01:06 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: jason1]
caver Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 260
Loc: High Falls
Yea, the pins on Feast's first pitch will hold a good fall from above for someone who weighs 150 lbs. .........twice!

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#41899 - 11/22/08 04:43 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: caver]
Cornell Climber Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: caver
Yea, the pins on Feast's first pitch will hold a good fall from above for someone who weighs 150 lbs. .........twice!


I put screamers on both pins, then got a small nut about 18" above them. The nut caught my whipper and saved $30 worth of screamers.

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#41901 - 11/22/08 06:58 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Cornell Climber]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
You can get a good luck at the P2 crux of Feast of Fools from the P1 anchor, but it's a lot harder (and less well-protected) than it looks. Kind of an unexpectedly committing sequence. Easier than P1 though and you can get to the anchor from Hans Puss.

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#41903 - 11/22/08 08:58 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Cornell Climber]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3763
Loc: Ulster County, NY
If youhaven't done the second Pitch of The Feast...you haven't done the route!!

RR

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#41906 - 11/23/08 02:41 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: RangerRob]
BobbyS Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 367
Loc: None
Break in Tens...I think Nosedive, Diretississima, Retribution, Disneyland Direct is an excellent suggestion, Simple Suff, Criss Cross Direct, Standards roof, p38.

When I climbed it last someone had slammed a new pin into City Streets....it was quite nice looking in comparison to when I first climbed it.

Birdie Party I think is a pretty good one. The crux is well protected and its about one move, but there is pg climbing on it.
I'd put this after the ones above.

Never Never Land similar. Well protected crux some pg climbing on it though. I'd put this after the ones above.

Wegetables I think is light for the grade and protects pretty well, but I would be a little less excited at a first 10.

I like frustration syndrome. I think the crux is very well protected but some pg climbing elsewhere.

Fat Stick Direct I don't like. I think even if you get 1/2 through the crux and get some gear in and clip it with a single carabiner, you can still break an ankle. I think this climb is pg-r

Nurses Aid similar, more involved not a break into the grade. Same with Welcome to the Gunks. Definately, no for tough shift....Graveyard shift? I question that one as a break into the 5.11- grade.

DisMantle and Dat Mantle I seem to remember one move climbs with pretty good pro, but not super interesting. Not a great one to break in on as far as enjoyment.

No for MF direct although its an easy 5.10.

Star action, no. Try again easier, but not a break into the grade climb. No for E.D. or Fat City. No for Feast of Fools. No for Falled on Account of Strain. No for Bird Cage
No for Transcont. The crux is well protected. The slab move beforehand is not super well protected. The 5.8 above is a bit runnout.

Elder Cleavage Direct I think can wait until you have a few done. Day Tripper Direct? well protected but is probably somewhere between 5.10a and 5.10d depending on your height and its not that interesting. Hang ten is ok. Outer Space Direct is 5.10b to 5.10d and I think is not a great one to start on. No to the Hounds....No to Muriel's Nose.

I think this covers most of the 5.10a and 5.10b routes that get a star and are reasonable.

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#41910 - 11/23/08 03:45 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: BobbyS]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2454
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Bobby, that's one of the most coherent set of recommendations I've ever seen on this site. You managed to cut throught the fog that almost invariably develops as people ignore the original question and just blab on, usually with the result that almost everything at the grade ends up being recommended by someone.

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#41913 - 11/23/08 05:36 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: rg@ofmc]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1054
Loc: Newtown, CT
The only one that Bobby said that I would disagree with is Doubleissima. The climbing is extremely pumpy and sustained. Gear, while plentiful everywhere is pumpy to get in and not something you want to be doing on a first 5.10. The moves off of the ledge are also difficult, sequential and sustained. While very safe if you get the gear in it is not one that I would want to be doing as an introduction to the grade. The grade is also all over the place in the guide books from 10b to 10d. Where there are no killer hard moves on it, the sustained nature of the climb would lead me to think of this as more of a 10c route. I have done it many times, always get it, but it is never easy. Always great though.

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#41914 - 11/23/08 07:32 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Coppertone]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2454
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Yeah, actually, I agree with Dave on Double-issima. Not to mention that the first pitch (or initial section if you do the whole thing in one pitch) although 5.8, is PG if you get the protection right and otherwise worse...

Still, I like Bobby's inclination to rule out things that aren't really ideal for the first foray rather than letting everything but the kitchen sink accumulate.

Just an aside, but isn't it really the case that the best first 5.10's to do are some of the 5.9's? Or to put it another way, do these 5.9's as part of the transition to 5.10? Le Teton, Keep on Struttin', and Proctoscope come to mind...

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#41915 - 11/23/08 07:46 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: rg@ofmc]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1054
Loc: Newtown, CT
 Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc

Just an aside, but isn't it really the case that the best first 5.10's to do are some of the 5.9's? Or to put it another way, do these 5.9's as part of the transition to 5.10? Le Teton, Keep on Struttin', and Proctoscope come to mind...


Along those lines you could also include Protorsilex(has some 7R on it), first pitch Falled on Account of Strain, Insulation.

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#41920 - 11/24/08 04:05 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Coppertone]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
Plenty of 9s I did after I broke into 10s but that's the way it works. If I'd waited until I'd done all the hard 7s before starting the 8s, I'd still be on 7s. Nothing wrong with stretching out feelers into the next grade.

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#41934 - 11/24/08 03:56 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: dalguard]
Frank Florence Offline
addict

Registered: 01/05/00
Posts: 528
Loc: moved to Bend
I’ve recently been venturing out on my first 10s at the Gunks and my impression is that it’s a bigger step than between other grades. Getting beta on routes that protect well at the crux is helpful. So is getting time in on the harder 9s. That definitely helped me gain confidence with hanging out while placing gear, moving beyond pro on longer runouts in the “easier” sections, and acquiring somewhat better technique on steep face. Unfortunately, it hasn’t helped with those stinkin’ long reaches.

Regarding the routes themselves, on the half dozen or so climbs I’ve done, the recommendations given above (e.g. Mike Rawdon, BobbyS, and GOclimb) closely match my own experience.

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#41945 - 11/24/08 10:13 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: rg@ofmc]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2354
Loc: Boston
 Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
Bobby, that's one of the most coherent set of recommendations I've ever seen on this site. You managed to cut throught the fog that almost invariably develops as people ignore the original question and just blab on, usually with the result that almost everything at the grade ends up being recommended by someone.


Well if all the work I put into re-entering what I consider to be very useful beta about *exactly* this question is "blabbing on" - then I'm sorry, but I will simply remind you that I'm not posting for your benefit (as you and BobbyS clearly already know everything.) Rather, I did so for the benefit of the OP, who I thought would find it as useful as I did (extremely!) when it was first posted.

As to my addition of FoF being a bad one, if you feel that way, please go ahead and just say why.

If your opinion is simply that it's not sportsmanlike to get on it if you're not ready for the second pitch, then that's a valid opinion, but not one that everyone will share, I think.

GO

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#41951 - 11/25/08 02:47 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: GOclimb]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2454
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Don't get your undies in a twist, Gabe, I wasn't talking about you. I wasn't talking about anyone in particular. Just noting a general tendency when advice is sought for the community to end up recommending just about everything, at which point the totality of the recommendations adds up to no recommendation. I thought Bobby cut through that rather well.

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#41956 - 11/25/08 01:40 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: GOclimb]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2082
Loc: SoCal
Gabe, meant to say this earlier - I really appreciate the time you spent collecting & typing all that in. When I'm looking for recommendations, I prefer to collect data from n >> 1, so your post is really valuable.

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#41963 - 11/25/08 04:09 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Julie]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2354
Loc: Boston
RG, I agree that BobbyS's post is a fine one. But it's not the be-all-end-all post on the subject.

 Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
Don't get your undies in a twist, Gabe, I wasn't talking about you. I wasn't talking about anyone in particular.


Yes, I noticed that. You were casting aspersions on more or less everyone in general, rather than anyone in specific. But I seemed to fit the mold you cast as well or better than anyone else. Pardon me if I don't like the constriction of said mold very well, and say so.

 Quote:
Just noting a general tendency when advice is sought for the community to end up recommending just about everything, at which point the totality of the recommendations adds up to no recommendation. I thought Bobby cut through that rather well.


Surely you've noticed that in threads like this, many very experienced folks with good memory for beta have very different recollections of climbs?

What's one man's meat is another man's poison, and the chance to triangulate between the different positions of multiple posters is invaluable.

And, frankly, if just one person suggests a climb that everyone else thinks is a piss-poor idea, that says far more about that climb than if it had never been brought up.

GO

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#41964 - 11/25/08 04:21 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: GOclimb]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2082
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: GOclimb
What's one man's meat is another man's poison, and the chance to triangulate between the different positions of multiple posters is invaluable.

And, frankly, if just one person suggests a climb that everyone else thinks is a piss-poor idea, that says far more about that climb than if it had never been brought up.


I agree with this. Plus, at 5.10, I think people have a better idea of where their individual strengths lie - and which route might fit them better. I'm better off trying Nosedive or Simple Suff than Hang Ten or the Mantles, but for some(most)one else, it might be the opposite.

I think RG's point - that recommendations become a mismash of everything in the sink - is perhaps more valid at lower grades, where people haven't developed a keen sense of where their individual strengths are. Someone who's just blowing through 5.7 might not have the experience, or have really been challenged enough yet, to tell whether Airy Area or Modern Times is or isn't a good first 5.8 for them, for instance.

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#41965 - 11/25/08 04:45 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Julie]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
I must say I thought everyone on the thread was being helpful. I keep a list of 10s that I could try, divided into "try now" and "try later". The routes I recommended in this thread are ones I've either already led or that are on my "try now" list. As a person who is only one and a half seasons into 5.10 and a coward, I think I'm a decent judge of where to start. But other people have taken different paths and have different opinions and that'll always be true (and beneficial).

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#41973 - 11/25/08 07:11 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: dalguard]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
Brilliant post Bobby...

It's funny to read words from long ago, especially when I'm clipping bolts out here at Smith these days.

Gabe, I think the quotes were taken from a thread about good starter 10's with clean falls...which is slightly different than the easy print layout that Bobby wrote up. Thanks for posting that digest though, it was fun to revisit.

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#41974 - 11/25/08 07:12 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: crackers]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
IMHO, btw, simple suff is a lot like Ant's line...you can sew it up as much as you want. And I seem to recall that the beginning of it protects with a small alien or two.

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#41979 - 11/25/08 08:17 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: crackers]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2354
Loc: Boston
 Originally Posted By: crackers
Gabe, I think the quotes were taken from a thread about good starter 10's with clean falls...which is slightly different than the easy print layout that Bobby wrote up. Thanks for posting that digest though, it was fun to revisit.


IIRC, the question I asked way back when was what were starter 10s that would be reasonably protectable. Of course people answered the question as they saw it. Which is fine (with me).

GO

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#41980 - 11/25/08 08:26 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: GOclimb]
crackers Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: pdx
 Originally Posted By: GOclimb

IIRC, the question I asked way back when was what were starter 10s that would be reasonably protectable. Of course people answered the question as they saw it. Which is fine (with me).

GO


I believe you. ;\)

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#41988 - 11/25/08 11:54 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: crackers]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Hey, some of us are getting old and don't climb so hard anymore. Perhaps someone can draw up a list of good start 5.3's with clean falls. *wink wink*

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#42496 - 12/31/08 12:53 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: pedestrian]
BobbyS Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 367
Loc: None
I think feast of fools is a later one for a few reasons....
The main reason being that it is a solid midrange 5.10. You are hit with some moves at the first roof and then it is solid around the pins. I felt that I needed extra gear for this route that most don't carry for most Gunks routes.... I like two #2 camalots b/c I like one as a directional early on. I think I also thought I could do with an extra #3 camalot and/or an extra #1 camalot.... I climbed it the first time on a single set of stoppers and cams, but remember wanting more larger cams and moving them here and then there or going back to get them....

I also didn't think the two pins at the crux inspired lots of confidence although I thought they would hold....thought they were a bit awkward to clip and thought you had to go a bit afterwards....

The second pitch is 5.10pg. All in all, its a great climb, but I think there are easier and less involved 5.10s and am not sure I would want it to be my first 5.10.

I fully realize that some people may think that this is an easy one to break into.

I agree with climbing all the hard 5.9s first.

Some other ones....no to men at arms or the other two 5.9+ to 5.10 routes to the right of MF. No to Shitface although I think the crux is well protected and not such a hard one.

No for Elder Cleavage....More involved midrange 5.10 that a lot of people have hit the ledge on, on the second pitch.....

No to Live Free or Die....

No to Face to Face...No to Amber Waves of Pain its a tough, PG 5.9+ or harder and the title gives away the ankle breaking anguish of the fall on the first ascent....

I don't like Falled on Account of Strain because I recall some more pg climbing...but remember it being a nice fall from the crux

Doubleissima....its pumpy....it seems a lot easier than Rediculissima so I still think 5.10b. There is a move to start the crux section that is protected by a smaller wire...from there , there is lots of gear....I agree that something like Disneyland direct probably has easier gear to place (pre-place) and less thinking...

No to Stirrup Trouble. It is sustained, PG, and involved....double ropes I think are necessary (or split your rope in half).

All those other ones around Never Never Land are either scary (Never Again) or hard (J'Accuse)

I think Balrog is hard 5.10.

The 5.9+ that crosses mainline is a pretty solid one....and a nice climb...involved....Badfinger is a solid 5.9. Agree with all the others...insulation...obstacle of delusion (? grade as being something like 5.9 although it is listed as 5.8+ and 5.10- in different books)...Agree Le Teton, Protoscope and the other 5.9+ there...protorsilex, keep on Struttin. If Lisa is 5.9?+ that is a good one.

I agree that one person's 5.10 is another's 5.9 and vice versa. Some harder climbs that are safer may be better ones to start on, but I think there are plenty of well protected 5.10a/b's to start on.

Have fun...be safe...happy new years....

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#42531 - 01/05/09 10:00 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: BobbyS]
Chas Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 1754
Loc: Flagstaff
Falled on the Account of Strain isn't that bad of PG. If I remember right , by the time you get to the next horizontial that takes gear, you are either standing on the horizontal that has your last piece of gear or you have done one or two moves above that. Near the ground you do want to be careful. since a fall with gear at your feet can mean your butt is on the ground.

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#42533 - 01/05/09 11:16 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Chas]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1054
Loc: Newtown, CT
The gear on Falled really is not that bad. There is no gear for the first 10 feet or so, but if you are going to be leading a 5.10 then no gear for the first few feet on easy face climbing should not be an issue. After that the gear on the first pitch is adequate. You get very good gear at the crux of the first pitch, but do have to go a little ways above it after the crux to the small ledge for your next gear. This is a clean fall with nothing to hit. The second pitch is just complete fun, however if you are not with someone who has previously done the route, routefinding on where to exit can be challenging. Also once you commit to the moves it can get pumpy in a hurry especially if you are not used to this type of climbing, which if this is a first 5.10 you are likely not. A fall up top could be all air or could be messy, especially if you get behind the rope or if you wind up swinging in. This climb is great when done in one pitch. While I think that it is a pretty easy tick for a Gunks 5.10 it might not be the best choice as a first 5.10 due to slight runouts, big exposure, routefinding, pump and commitment(once you start up through the overhangs your not coming back)


Edited by Coppertone (01/05/09 11:17 PM)

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#42543 - 01/07/09 02:04 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: Coppertone]
phlan Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2776
Loc: Gardiner, NY
*GEAR BETA WARNING* (on Falled)

if there are any other complete chickens like me out there, you might find a little section on the first pitch a little nervy. the 1st 10 feet of unprotected never bothered me. bring a blue lowe ball and look for a tiny little place to put it when you are feeling like you need it...

a great pitch... the 2nd also great but have not led it...
_________________________
Support Your Local Farmer!

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#42567 - 01/10/09 06:17 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: phlan]
retr2327 Offline
member

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 108
Route finding Beta Warning - Falled on Account of Strain:

The first ten feet aren't bad at all if you start well to the left of the crack. You don't need a Lowe ball or any other sort of fancy trickery.

If you go straight up the crack, however, it's a whole different story . . . .

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#42574 - 01/11/09 03:39 AM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: retr2327]
phlan Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2776
Loc: Gardiner, NY
perhaps I should be more specific. it was not for the first ten feet. I am not THAT chicken. or at least I was not. I was recommending the blue lowe ball for up higher. at an unspecified location. not to give it all away. have fun, it's all good.
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#42588 - 01/12/09 04:25 PM Re: 5.10s with good pros at the crux [Re: retr2327]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1054
Loc: Newtown, CT
 Originally Posted By: retr2327
Route finding Beta Warning - Falled on Account of Strain:

The first ten feet aren't bad at all if you start well to the left of the crack. You don't need a Lowe ball or any other sort of fancy trickery.

If you go straight up the crack, however, it's a whole different story . . . .


There really are not any route finding issues on the first pitch. It is the second pitch where I have seen many a leader not be able to find the correct spot at which to tackle the overhangs. This can lead to backing off or going through the overhangs at a much higher grade.

As far as gear goes on the first pitch I really don't see any need for a Lowe Ball any where. The pitch protects quite well with nothing smaller than a green alien.

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