Okay, again, from that old thread, here's the last four routes that were commented on:
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P-38
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Coppertone: recommended it
BobbyS: Recommended it
LesterLB: Not a big fand of P-38 as an intro to 10s. Seen too many 5.10 newbie leaders turn an ankle falling off the opening moves. But people seem to love this one.
Crackers: imho, ends with a slab. The beginning takes (for instance, YMMV) a honking big cam in a horizontal, then a blue black alien offset and then a blue or black alien or a bomber nut, by which point you're about twelve feet plus off the deck.
RG: I don't remember much about this route. A classic it ain't.
Retribution
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bobbys: recommended it
Coppertone: recommended it
Steven Cherry: recommended it
Crackers: well, that wouldn't be one I would pick to huck on.
LLB: As for entry-level 5.10s it's hard to beat the sister climbs Retribution and Nosedive. Nosedive is a little more involved, a little more endurance-oriented as the crux is much higher up than Retribution. But once past the first 12 ft the gear is excellent. A near-blind nut placement behind the big flake pros the crux, but if you get the right size in it is bomber.
dan0930: How about nose dive... much nicer than retribution and no move harder than 5.9 bomber gear the whole way
yorick: if cracks/dihedrals are your thing, there's really nothing but simple suff and retribution/nosedive in that range...
Dizzy: Retribution is pretty much a one hit wonder and I think you could do better.
RG: Good choice. Very short crux followed by sustained 5.8. My first 5.10 lead in the Gunks, sometime in the early sixties, seconded by Yvon Choinard.
Simple Suff
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Phlan: some people don't like the start, but it's really not so bad if you are confident stemming and even a chicken like me has led it more than once and didn't have a problem with the gear. Bring LOTS of small wires, double or maybe even triple on the small to medium sizes. It's a sew up.
Steven Cherry: Good climbers have gotten hurt on Simple Suff. It's a great route, but the start isn't well-protected, and anyway it's not an easy 10, even though it has a 10a rating.
oenophore: I can't imagine anyone getting hurt on Simple Suff. Are you sure? It's not an easy ten; it's a good nine. Amazing how people can differ on such things!
Steven cherry: I personally know a climber who was hurt on Simple Suff. He wasn't the only one in the past several years. (Further back someone took a very very bad fall and ripped all his gear. That was bad gear placement, not a problem with the start, though the difficulty of placing a good multidirectional first piece might have exacerbated the problem of bad placements.) As to the rating, we've had several threads where people have called Simple Suff a hard 10, some have said it's closer to 10c than 10a. While others defend the 10a rating (including me), you're the first person I can remember here to say it's a 9.
RR: I fall in to the "Simple Suff is a 10c route" category myself. The start is what really gets me. I get all pumped out protecting the start and then have a pump fest on my hands for the rest of the pitch. Although, for someone who is good at stemming this shouldn't feel harder than 10a. It is amazing how people differ on this.
BobbyS: Simple Stuff, 5.10c, are you serious. Tennish anyone is 5.10c, ... and I could probably name another 30 5.10's that are harder and more involved than Simple Stuff. And getting a multi-directional piece in at the beginning of SS, just stick a small cam in there or equalize some stoppers, bring a few extra in small size cams if you have them.
LLB: I'm one of those people who think Simple Suff is not a good entry 5.10. The gear is not really there at the start. It's 5.10a IF you hit every stem opportunity, but few new 5.10 climbers manage that. And BTW... for anyone embarking on Simple Suff, don't forget to give a top-rope whirl on Kevin Bein's 11d on the right side of the Simple Suff corner. Excellent steep face climbing!
Mark Heyman: <snip> Nevertheless, I know a climber I respect who injured himself at the start of Simple Stuff. That's two so far, any others?
Yorick: A california climber wanted to know what the next, similar but tad harder route was after he cruised ant's line... i suggested simple suff... he busted his leg...
Crackers: Simple Suff protects really really well if you've got the guns to hang in and protect it. Lots of people don't The falls are pretty clean on it.
RG: This climb is more reminiscent of, say, Eldorado than the Gunks, requiring good stemming technique and a cool head. No way it is 5.9, but it ain't hard 10 either. I think the opening moves are reasonably but not perfectly protectable. There are no placements that can be made from restful positions.
Transcon
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Mike Rawdon: The roof on Transcon is a long reach but certainly not harder than 5.8. Then you get a bomber cam at your left shoulder. THEN you make the awkward [beta deleted] move to stand up in the corner. A fall here would be clean air with the rope safely off to the side. The "scary 5.8 section" at the top would not be a good place to fall. But one could conceivably avoid that by stepping right to the El Kabong (?) anchor that's just a few feet away at the top of the corner. This all assumes one survives the opening slab of course.
Crackers: Transcon would be good on top, but i've seen really stupid falls that were really scary on the bottom...
RG: The final 15--20 feet of Transcon is run-out 5.8--5.9 protected with a small brassy---if you find the placement. The opening slab is well protected if you are good at getting good pro. In other words, it is easy but avoidable to put in questionable gear here. The move over the roof is protected by a fixed pin---who knows how good it is? It takes work to back it up with a small cam. At least use a screamer.
LLB: I always remember pulling up into the roof and getting a good cam in there before having to make the moves to get over it. Am I not remembering it that well?
GO
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