Don't get your undies in a twist, Gabe, I wasn't talking about you. I wasn't talking about anyone in particular. Just noting a general tendency when advice is sought for the community to end up recommending just about everything, at which point the totality of the recommendations adds up to no recommendation. I thought Bobby cut through that rather well.

Gabe, meant to say this earlier - I really appreciate the time you spent collecting & typing all that in. When I'm looking for recommendations, I prefer to collect data from n >> 1, so your post is really valuable.

RG, I agree that BobbyS's post is a fine one. But it's not the be-all-end-all post on the subject.



Yes, I noticed that. You were casting aspersions on more or less everyone in general, rather than anyone in specific. But I seemed to fit the mold you cast as well or better than anyone else. Pardon me if I don't like the constriction of said mold very well, and say so.



Surely you've noticed that in threads like this, many very experienced folks with good memory for beta have very different recollections of climbs?

What's one man's meat is another man's poison, and the chance to triangulate between the different positions of multiple posters is invaluable.

And, frankly, if just one person suggests a climb that everyone else thinks is a piss-poor idea, that says far more about that climb than if it had never been brought up.

GO

I agree with this. Plus, at 5.10, I think people have a better idea of where their individual strengths lie - and which route might fit them better. I'm better off trying Nosedive or Simple Suff than Hang Ten or the Mantles, but for some(most)one else, it might be the opposite.

I think RG's point - that recommendations become a mismash of everything in the sink - is perhaps more valid at lower grades, where people haven't developed a keen sense of where their individual strengths are. Someone who's just blowing through 5.7 might not have the experience, or have really been challenged enough yet, to tell whether Airy Area or Modern Times is or isn't a good first 5.8 for them, for instance.

I must say I thought everyone on the thread was being helpful. I keep a list of 10s that I could try, divided into "try now" and "try later". The routes I recommended in this thread are ones I've either already led or that are on my "try now" list. As a person who is only one and a half seasons into 5.10 and a coward, I think I'm a decent judge of where to start. But other people have taken different paths and have different opinions and that'll always be true (and beneficial).

Brilliant post Bobby...

It's funny to read words from long ago, especially when I'm clipping bolts out here at Smith these days.

Gabe, I think the quotes were taken from a thread about good starter 10's with clean falls...which is slightly different than the easy print layout that Bobby wrote up. Thanks for posting that digest though, it was fun to revisit.

IMHO, btw, simple suff is a lot like Ant's line...you can sew it up as much as you want. And I seem to recall that the beginning of it protects with a small alien or two.

IIRC, the question I asked way back when was what were starter 10s that would be reasonably protectable. Of course people answered the question as they saw it. Which is fine (with me).

GO

I believe you.

Hey, some of us are getting old and don't climb so hard anymore. Perhaps someone can draw up a list of good start 5.3's with clean falls. *wink wink*