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#42508 - 01/02/09 12:04 AM Re: If you think Patterson's proposal is outrageou [Re: Dillbag]
oenophore Offline
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Registered: 09/24/01
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 Originally Posted By: Dillbag
Why would they have to track the actual vehicles? Why not just record the mileage during a yearly inspection... And have people call in their mileage quarterly like you can do with the power/gas companies?

There, tax is there for driving amount... And no big brother!

I'm a freaking GENIUS!
Not all an Oregonian's driving might be in that state and therefore he'd be taxed for out-of-state mileage. On the other hand, a non-Oregonian either way may drive in that state free of charge.
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#42603 - 01/15/09 03:17 AM Re: If you think Patterson's proposal is outrageou [Re: oenophore]
Daniel Offline
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Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
It's not just Oregon. From today's NY Times on how some states are considering raising their gas taxes:

"And with the advent of more fuel-efficient vehicles — including hybrids and all-electric cars that some automakers are now promising to bring to market — some states are rethinking the traditional gas tax. North Carolina and Ohio, among others, are starting to consider the concept of a tax on “vehicle miles traveled.” That system has been tried on a small pilot scale in the Portland, Ore., area, but has never been tried on a large scale."

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#42607 - 01/15/09 10:46 AM Re: If you think Patterson's proposal is outrageou [Re: Daniel]
oenophore Offline
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Has the issue of out-of-staters driving "free" in states that charge its drivers by the mile and in-staters charged for out-of-state driving in such states been broached?
It's much like the tax situation of neighboring states Oregon and Washington. Oregon has an income tax and no sales tax. Washington has the opposite. Someone living near their border would do well taxwise to live and work in Washington, avoiding state income tax, and shop in Oregon to avoid sales tax.
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#42719 - 01/21/09 05:43 PM Re: If you think Patterson's proposal is outrageou [Re: oenophore]
quanto_the_mad Offline
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Sorta. The Oregon test was, if I'm not mistaken, that tester's cars would have computers with GPS units that communicate with gas stations pumps. The pumps would charge those drivers with tax depending on mileage driven in-state. Everyone else would get taxed the standard rate.

Cross-state drivers would be charged tax only if they filled up in state, so out of state hybrid drivers are still a problem. Hackers were another problem, as was faulty devices that didn't properly communicate with the pumps.

There are still a lot of kinks to work out.
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#43127 - 02/18/09 11:12 AM Not just in Oregon [Re: quanto_the_mad]
oenophore Offline
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Massachusetts may consider a mileage charge
By GLEN JOHNSON

BOSTON (AP) A tentative plan to overhaul Massachusetts' transportation system by using GPS chips to charge motorists a quarter-cent for every mile behind the wheel has angered some drivers.

"It's outrageous, it's kind of Orwellian, Big Brotherish," said Sen. Scott Brown, R-Wrentham, who drafted legislation last week to prohibit the practice. "You'd need a whole new department of cronies just to keep track of it."

But a "Vehicle Miles Traveled" program like the one the governor may unveil this week has already been tested with positive results in Oregon.

Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island, as well as the federal government, also are talking about such programs. And in North Carolina, a panel suggested in December the state start charging motorists a quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.

"The Big Brother issue was identified during the first meeting of the task force that developed our program," said Jim Whitty, who oversees innovation projects for the Oregon Department of Transportation. "Everything we did from that point forward, even though we used electronics, was to eliminate those concerns."

A draft overhaul transport plan prepared for Gov. Deval Patrick says implementing a Vehicle Miles Traveled system to replace the gas tax makes sense. "A user-based system, collected electronically, is a fair way to pay for our transportation needs in the future," it says.

Patrick, who had yet to settle on any of the ideas contained in the draft, told reporters last week, "I like any idea that is faster, cheaper, simpler."

The idea behind the program is simple: As cars become more fuel efficient or powered by electricity, gas tax revenues decline. Yet the cost of building and maintaining roads and bridges is increasing. A state could cover that gap by charging drivers precisely for the mileage their vehicles put on public roads.

"There needs to be a new way of thinking about, `How do we pay for all of this?'" said Richard Dimino, president of A Better City, a business-friendly group that considers transportation issues.

"One of the ways is thinking about the automobile like a utility: When we turn on our automobile and use it, we would be charged like we do when we turn on the lights and we start using electricity."

In Oregon, the state paid volunteers who let the transportation department install GPS receivers in 300 vehicles. The device did not transmit a signal which would allow real-time tracking of a driver's movements but instead passively received satellite pings telling the receiver where it was in terms of latitude and longitude coordinates.

The state used those coordinates to determine when the vehicle was driving both within Oregon and outside the state. And it measured the respective distances through a connection with the vehicle's odometer.

When a driver pulled into a predetermined service station, the pump linked electronically with the receiver, downloaded the number of miles driven in Oregon and then charged the driver a fee based on the distance. The gas tax they would have paid was reduced by the amount of the user fee. Drivers continued to be charged gas tax for miles driven outside Oregon.

Under such systems, one of which is already used in London, drivers are charged more for entering a crowded area during rush hour than off-peak periods.

"What the mileage charge does, if it's structured properly, is simply charge for the basic responsibility of people to pay for the amount of wear they put on the state's roads," said Whitty, whose state is still considering the mechanics of broadening the program.
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#44142 - 04/13/09 02:44 AM Re: Go F Yourself Governor Patterson [Re: strat]
Daniel Offline
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Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
Here's a well written article from Slate on the soda tax.

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#44144 - 04/13/09 10:11 AM Re: Go F Yourself Governor Paterson [Re: Daniel]
oenophore Offline
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The points in that article are interesting. The taxed item is said to be harmful, hence a tax will diminish consumption. Yet an increase in tax will increase revenue. This may be true for something addicting like cigarettes. The cigarette smoker can save money by buying a roll-it-yourself cigarette kit, yet I think few do so. Similarly, one can create one's own carbonated beverages, yet I suspect few will do so even if the commercial stuff is heavily taxed.
I'd like to see stevia permitted in commercial food and beverages. The sugar and artificial sweetener lobbies have influenced the FDA to ban it as an additive.

(And stickler that I am, I just had to correct the spelling of the autocopulating governor's name.)
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#44579 - 05/13/09 03:53 PM Soda tax? Here we go again [Re: empicard]
oenophore Offline
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Registered: 09/24/01
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Oh, and I sell soda for a living. Demographic I sell to doesn't give a CRAP about diet soda. I sell about 20:1 regular Vs. diet sodas. Are my sales to now suffer because you think they should have Aspertame instead of delicious sweet sugar and corn syrup?

Read it and groan.
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#44630 - 05/14/09 06:45 PM Re: Soda tax? Here we go again [Re: oenophore]
empicard Offline
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Registered: 08/29/01
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well, good thing my partner was a thief and i shut down the business....
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#44634 - 05/14/09 07:16 PM Is the auto-f suggestion transferable? [Re: empicard]
oenophore Offline
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Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5934
Loc: 212 land
So Strat, is the suggestion made to Gov. Paterson also to be made to the Senate Finance Committee, the Center for Science in the Public Interest and the Congressional Budget Office?
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