Shout Box

Who's Online
0 registered (), 18 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 12 of 14 < 1 2 ... 10 11 12 13 14 >
Topic Options
#44122 - 04/11/09 04:19 PM Re: Cliff Closure [Re: MarcC]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Here is a New York Times article, now ten years old, that sheds some light on the kinds of landowner grievances Kent may be referring to.


Top
#44123 - 04/11/09 04:40 PM Re: Cliff Closure [Re: rg@ofmc]
oenophore Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5981
Loc: 212 land
The moral of that NY Times article is that one is foolish not to do a painstaking title search before buying property in the East and that title insurance might be a good idea too. But I think this isn't the issue in this thread.
_________________________

Top
#44124 - 04/11/09 05:15 PM Re: Cliff Closure [Re: oenophore]
spasmatron Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 49
Loc: Betwixt yonder and hither
On the contrary, it seems to me that the moral of that story is that you can't assume that all large non-profit environmental organizations are ethically faultless.

I've followed this story with interest since arriving in the area six years ago and I've seen Kent state his position clearly, eloquently and reasonably many times over.

Reading up the old threads which are lengthy and numerous, there is more to the story than just the dispute over deeds and boundaries. A lot of discussion has also revolved around the role of the preserve and it's consultants in directing and shaping the development of zoning laws in the area.

If even half of that stuff is true, it seems to me that a lot of the climber's umbrage misdirected at landowners should be better directed at the Preserve for not having made a better hash of developing the Preserve, its borders and its relationships with people on them, into the situation we are in today.

It is sad that parts of the cliff are closed, but I respect landowners rights to do so if their fair and reasonable wishes are being challenged, which IMHO, is the case here.

Top
#44126 - 04/11/09 06:34 PM Re: Cliff Closure [Re: spasmatron]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
For Christ's sake people, it's getting nice out. Shut the damn computer off and go climb something on any of the miles of legal cliffline around here. Stop playing into Kent's hand. It's a freaking choss pile we are talking about anyway. If you want to go climb at the end of the Nears, walk around top. If you need to complain about that....well, then you're a fat slob, and probably shouldn't leave your armchair.

RR

Top
#44128 - 04/11/09 07:53 PM Re: Cliff Closure [Re: RangerRob]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Actually Rob, I for one have mastered the amazing feat of going climbing and using the computer, although not at the same time, that level of multitasking being the forte of a much younger generation.

As for choss, it is in the eye of the beholder of course, and in this case some excellent single pitches which are on the land in question are now off-limits to those unwilling to trespass.

Moreover, going to the top and rapping in does not correspond to the way one spends a day during good Near Trapps routes. These routes tend to be single pitches at the base, and so walking along the base from route to route is the usual way of doing things. Now, having gotten a fair ways down the cliff, one would have to walk all the way back, then along the top, and then rap down in order to avoid walking through 150--200 feet of posted land. I don't think one needs to be anywhere near fat nor slobby to find this an exceptionally royal pain in the ass.

The Near Trapps is actually a goldmine of excellent, mostly one-pitch routes with zero choss. They are accessible, typically uncrowded, shady in the summer heat, with rock that is interesting and moves that are often atypical of Gunks climbing, providing a very nice touch of variety for those who think there are better things to do than hit up the Mac wall or slam their salmon for the millionth time. The current closure (and perhaps the possibility of a few more) constitute a major change in access to good climbing in the Gunks.

As for playing into Kent's hand, it may be true, but I for one don't really know what Kent's hand is or whether, when the playing is done, whether he will be happy or sad about the outcome of the "game." I can imagine outcomes that would be to the benefit of everyone, and others that would do no one any good.

Top
#44131 - 04/11/09 09:21 PM Re: Cliff Closure [Re: rg@ofmc]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
"For Christ's sake people, it's getting nice out. Shut the damn computer off and go climb something on any of the miles of legal cliffline around here."

I was in the NP cinema this afternoon watching Monsters Vs Aliens about the same time you were posting. Maybe we are both getting soft.....

Top
#44132 - 04/11/09 09:42 PM Re: Cliff Closure [Re: Smike]
Terrie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 247
What happens if an accident occurs at the further end of the Nears? I would, of course run right past those "No Tresspassing" signs to assist an injured person, but still...

And, if there is massive rockfall such as we saw in the Trapps last year? Do workers need to rappel in to do repairs?(No doubt Kent would enjoy that.... Sorry Kent, but you've pretty much shown your intent IS to inconvenience, in order to push your agenda).

An awful scenario I thought of and wished I could erase - someone rapping on to the farther area on the Nears goes off the ends of the rope. Could happen anywhere, of course, and lets hope that will never happen. But were it to occur, I think a host of ugly emotions would be unleashed.

Still, there is more at stake than just the naughty trespassers who may ignore those signs.
_________________________
Links to my blog, and online t-shirt shop

Top
#44136 - 04/12/09 12:12 AM Re: Cliff Closure [Re: Terrie]
caver Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 260
Loc: High Falls
Depending on your rappelling speed, walking to the end along the top, scrambling down, and heading back towards the north is likely to be faster. (maybe 45 minutes back to the Whetstone area)

Top
#44140 - 04/12/09 05:04 PM Re: Cliff Closure [Re: caver]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Yeah, I don't understand this whole rapping in deal. Why would someone do that? It's not like you're going to save yourself an hour of hiking time or anything. We're talking minutes here.

Top
#44141 - 04/12/09 06:52 PM Re: Cliff Closure [Re: Kent]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Gunks.com is still buggy as hell. One can't easily write a decent post or write it on word and paste it in. As well, many can't get to gunks.com at all and so they can't participate in the discussion at all. I don't have access in Gardiner. Instead I've had to VPN in through my office.

I've responded to the request from a few here on the details and impacts of the law on the Gunks access thread on rockclimbing.com

Top
Page 12 of 14 < 1 2 ... 10 11 12 13 14 >


Moderator:  webmaster 
Sponsored