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#44855 - 05/21/09 08:44 PM Re: Days Since GCC Board Members Terms Expired [Re: Dizzy]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Originally Posted By: Dizzy
So, if you force the GCC to hold elections and the current officers are unopposed and re-elected, how can you complain about the job they do?

Taking this one logical step further...since the GCC has done away with membership (as stated here several times in the past), exactly who is going to vote in a new election?
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- Marc

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#44856 - 05/21/09 08:48 PM Re: Days Since GCC Board Members Terms Expired [Re: Dizzy]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Heya Dizz,

What's new?

A sham election won't improve matters. An open and well pubilicized election would at least give those elected some credibility. So while one might still be critical of a new board's conduct, depending on what their future conduct is, at least the board would be credible. Of course, there is the problem of having no members and therefore no one to vote. A good time to have dealt with all this would have been at the end of their terms.

Scaring people away for years, which it seems they've done a good job of, and then bemoaning the fact that no one else wants to contribute, so they get to represent the climbing community as they please, for as long as they please, without explanation or any semblance of accountability, seems a bit self serving.

Many people, landowners and climbers alike, take exception with the conduct of the former GCC board, and believe there should be a new start. Personally I think the current GCC operators, for lack of a better term, should formally step down and allow a vacuum for now if need be, and then see who steps forward to fill the vacuum so new people can organize new elections.

An old start might work too. Will you come back to the GCC Dizz? Please?

I hope all is well with you.

K


Edited by Kent (05/21/09 09:08 PM)

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#44880 - 05/22/09 12:48 PM Re: Days Since GCC Board Members Terms Expired [Re: Kent]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
I'm a bit surprised that Kent or anyone else would feel scared away by Jannette. Yeah, she's a tough Mamma, but I've not seen any behavior to indicate malice or intimidation to be a part of her demeanor. Is someone frightening because they choose to take responsibilty and act on issues of interest and value to themselves or others? I could kiss her on both cheeks for the many hours of work and effort, to say nothing of the mental and emotional energy directed at climber relations at the gunks. I don't have to agree or disagree with someone to appreciate that kind of outpouring. Are you just pissed because you don't like an outcome? If so, the personal attacks are childish and petulant, as we can/should not control anyone else's desires nor the results of their effort. I don't know anyone else on the current GCC and can't speak about them.

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#44882 - 05/22/09 01:24 PM Re: Days Since GCC Board Members Terms Expired [Re: chip]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Perhaps scared is the wrong word. A better word is alienated. I'm not talking about them alienating me, but rather much of the rest of the climbing community.

As for personal attacks, I've been critical of the GCC for their conduct regarding access issues, not their personal conduct.

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#44883 - 05/22/09 01:25 PM Re: Days Since GCC Board Members Terms Expired [Re: Kent]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
572

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#44922 - 05/25/09 03:08 AM Re: Days Since GCC Board Members Terms Expired [Re: Kent]
Dizzy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 2177
Loc: Berkshires, MA and Ahlington, ...
I love technology. I am sitting in the dooryard of my 200 year old farmhouse in the Berkshires, I have a fire in my chiminea and I'm online. But this isn't why I'm writing.

There is a lot of chatter here and some valid points. I have written, deleted, rewritten and deleted again several responses and I come down to the same thing: If you have a complaint with the leadership of the GCC GO TO THE MEETING and air your grievances. Hiding behind some online group and taunting the GCC into responding is really a chicken$hit way to go. I have logged onto the website and the invitation is clearly there. Here's the linky for you: http://gunksclimbers.org/events.shtml There's another link to ask for directions to Ajax's house. Go! If you're really good, Ajax might even show you the museum.

I know the response already: It won't do any good. Well, the whole point of founding the GCC was to fight against that apathy and try to do what all the naysayers said couldn't be done. Eventually it will happen, but not overnight.

If you don't get the satisfaction that you think you want, then by all means, start another group. However it will soon be obvious that you will need to build some kind of structure: get 501c(3) status, for which you'll need bylaws. You will then need to build alliances with the land use managers of the local organizations like the Preserve, DEC, Towns of Rosendale and Gardiner, etc. and convince them you're the real deal and not the GCC. It will be a tough row to hoe. The structure of the GCC is key to the success of any negotiations to open climbing on these public/semipublic lands.

I know this is not what any of the antagonists wish to hear, but if you don't have the nads to step up and at least confront the GCC with you concerns, then stop whining. Be constructive and get involved in some other way.

OK, the fire is turning to embers and I'm getting tired.

Ta,
Dizz
_________________________
I can handle reality in small doses, but as a lifestyle it's way too confining
-Lily Tomlin

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#44928 - 05/25/09 09:40 PM Re: Days Since GCC Board Members Terms Expired [Re: Dizzy]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2361
Loc: Boston
Nice post Dizzy!

GO

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#44929 - 05/25/09 10:18 PM Re: Days Since GCC Board Members Terms Expired [Re: Dizzy]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Dizz,

Calling people chicken shit isn't going to help matters either. And, after the history of the last few years, to say that I don't have the nads to confront the GCC "leadership" is a bit ridiculous, don't you think? Years ago, I made repeated attempts to air my views directly to the board, and like others, was rebuffed. So they get what they get. A public debate about their conduct.

Also, it could just as easily be said that the GCC "Board" members are chicken shit for not responding to legitimate criticism, for not talking to landowners until land closed, for not holding elections, for eliminating members, etc.. That wouldn't be very constructive either though.

You mention bylaws, among other things. The GCC has failed to follow them. Now, having failed to follow their own bylaws, and lacking members, or current elections, they can make no credible or legitimate claim to representing the climbing community. They have become a fiefdom.

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#44931 - 05/25/09 10:32 PM Re: Days Since GCC Board Members Terms Expired [Re: Kent]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
575

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#44945 - 05/26/09 12:49 PM Re: Days Since GCC Board Members Terms Expired [Re: Kent]
Dizzy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 2177
Loc: Berkshires, MA and Ahlington, ...
So, maybe instead of crying on Gunks.com, why don't all of you who dislike the GCC figure out a way to have their 501c(3) non-profit status revoked for failure to hold elections according to the bylaws. You could also get the often scorned affiliation with the Access Fund revoked for the same reason.

Also, the "Well, they have no memebrs so elections aren't possible cuz who'll vote?" argument is also crap. The Western Mass Climbers Coalition also have no members per se, but they just successfully held an online election of a new board of directors.

There are lots of ways to get what you want, but it will probably require that other people get off their butts and go do it instead of just complaining about the job others are doing. It's real easy to just sit there.

Ta,
Dizz
_________________________
I can handle reality in small doses, but as a lifestyle it's way too confining
-Lily Tomlin

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