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#44817 - 05/21/09 02:00 AM More Alien failures
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4275
Loc: Poughkeepsie
I just heard that more non-recalled Aliens have failed under sub-rated loads. Details in rockclimbing.com; look for adatesman's post. Probably in Gear Heads or The Lab forum. (I'll post a link when I bother to check this out)

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#44820 - 05/21/09 03:19 AM Re: More Alien failures [Re: Mike Rawdon]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2467
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY

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#44821 - 05/21/09 04:13 AM Re: More Alien failures [Re: rg@ofmc]
tokyo bill Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 793
Loc: Tokyo
Damn, that's bad. I've been using my substantially pre-recall (dimple-less) Aliens; and the green, blue and yellow have all held small falls. Was feeling perfectly fine about them up until now...

Obviously the tests shown in rc.com aren't definitive, but not exactly encouraging. Time to buy some C3s or Mastercams (or just dig out my old set of TCUs)...?


Edited by tokyo bill (05/21/09 04:15 AM)

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#44831 - 05/21/09 01:55 PM Re: More Alien failures [Re: tokyo bill]
Jgreene Offline
member

Registered: 07/17/08
Posts: 171
Bill,

I'm with you, I just got rid of my aliens and purchased C3's. Peace of mind at last.

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#44835 - 05/21/09 02:51 PM Re: More Alien failures [Re: Jgreene]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2675
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
I'm of the opinion that testing these two old cams doesn't mean a whole lot unless you are climbing on old, beat up cams.
That said, I've already moved away from Aliens but still have one green that I carry. CCH needs to get serious and do a nice, public test to breaking on at least 5 of each size to restore confidence in the brand. Yes, the design is nice and all but you can't worry about your expensive cams not doing the job.

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#44836 - 05/21/09 02:59 PM Re: More Alien failures [Re: chip]
adatesman Offline
member

Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 102
Loc: Philadelphia
Hey Mike- Check your PMs. I also broke those slings of yours while down at the NRR, but it will be a bit until I get the results posted (for obvious reasons).

Chip- True, two results don't make for statistically significant data but is evidence that faulty gear not subject to the recall is out in the wild. My only concern is that people get this stuff tested to make sure they're not climbing on a time bomb. I don't particularly care if CCH stays in business or not and have no agenda other than making sure people don't get hurt by this.

-aric.

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#44838 - 05/21/09 03:09 PM Re: More Alien failures [Re: adatesman]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2675
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Aric, it is very cool that you are doing this and I don't want to deminish the results, although it can only be applied to similar gear. It certainly raises awareness! I'm a bit nuts about wanting to go home again after a day at the crag and try to replace my stuff when it is beat, but not everyone is that anal. Hear me Browndog?
The best thing to occur would be to finally see CCH do some real testing and get everything certified, etc.
If mastercams and C3s aren't taking over the market then what are people thinking?

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#44841 - 05/21/09 04:11 PM Re: More Alien failures [Re: chip]
Chas Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 1754
Loc: Flagstaff
Testing 5 in each size is such a small percentage. If I was serious in understanding the issue, I'd be collecting maybe 200-400 in each size and testing them.

Its really not good that you can't trust the gear. I moved away from Aliens to Zero's then C3's years ago, but I have seen what an alien failure can do (A friend was belaying when a braze failed on some guys alien when he took (barely any load), the guy wacked his head on a ledge and surprisingly the bleeding saved his life (otherwise he would have died of compartmental syndrome).

Now I have a couple of older aliens (much older), (I could give you two blues and two greens and 1 orange if you want). Just send me an address and I'd be happy to send tem to you (as long as I get feedback on how they preformed).


Edited by Chas (05/21/09 04:43 PM)

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#44844 - 05/21/09 04:38 PM Re: More Alien failures [Re: Jgreene]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 319
...except that C3s have a greater tendency to fall out of placements than anything I've ever used i.e the first (and now last) time I placed one. With any other cam this was a solid, parallel-sided placement in granite in Tuolomne. yeah, operator error is a bitch, statistical sample of one etc. However, I've 'operated' all different types of cam over the years and these things spook me. Have another buddy with the same experience who went from C3s back to Aliens as a result. YMMV. I sure hope it does. Still, does make one think that getting the Aliens pulled at CCH might be a good idea.

be safe etc.

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#44852 - 05/21/09 08:31 PM Re: More Alien failures [Re: ianmanger]
adatesman Offline
member

Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 102
Loc: Philadelphia
@Chip- Its been a long couple days (what a shitstorm to be in the middle of!), so I may be reading your post wrong and if so my apologies. I'll test whatever anyone sends me and have done all sorts of gear. Pretty much all of it has similar writeups on RC (in The Lab) and this is the first case of anything performing in a very disturbing manner. I had a pair of U-stem Camalots I wasn't happy about, but I wouldn't term them "failures" (more of a design problem that was corrected in the next generation).

Just FYI, I had another cam pull out at bodyweight over the weekend while finally getting around to proof testing the old gear on my rack, but as that company is no longer in business and was only on the market a year or two I'm sitting on the results while waiting for the cam to get to the former owner of the company (he now works for one of the other gear companies). I've met him and he's a good guy, so I trust he'll do the right thing with it.

@Chas- What I'd like to see at this point is a group effort to send a bunch of gear to a professional lab for testing as it addresses the issue of me not having certified equipment, not doing this kind of work professionally, potential for bias and it gets me the hell out of the middle of this shitstorm. I'd do it again in a heartbeat, but damn its an uncomfortable place to be.

Sadly sending stuff off will cost money (probably a lot) and I just don't have any to make it happen. I also have my doubts that organizing a group effort would work for logistical issues, so if you want to send stuff along I'll take it since there's already other stuff coming my way. Best case I simply forward it along to the professional lab and worst case I break more stuff. Not like I could get any deeper at this point. :-\

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