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#44887 - 05/22/09 03:52 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: pedestrian]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
They are not old issues. The assault on landowners, by organizations and individuals the GCC aligns itself with, is ongoing in the form of lawsuits, planning board votes, and the like.

And Nate, what do you mean by my laundry smells too? What the hell does that mean?

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#44888 - 05/22/09 04:16 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: Kent]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Kent, simply saying you're airing out others' old dirty laundry, by dredging up these old issues. Expect yours to be aired out too, so to speak. This fight is becoming too personal.

The Preserve is the only game in town, for better or for worse, and the GCC does not align itself with the FOS.


Edited by pedestrian (05/22/09 04:17 PM)

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#44889 - 05/22/09 04:26 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: pedestrian]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Nate, I'm intentionally avoiding making the fight personal. I've never once mentioned anything about the personal lives of the people involved. Their personal lives are not relevant.

As for the rest, the GCC's past conduct, including the lack of members or current elections, has given them zero credibility with landowners. Zip, zilch, zero. None.

I don't see how a constructive relationship with landowners can ever evolve as long as the current players at the GCC are involved.


Edited by Kent (05/22/09 04:41 PM)

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#44890 - 05/22/09 04:43 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: Kent]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Originally Posted By: Kent
As for the rest, the GCC's past conduct, including the lack of members or current elections, has given them zero credibility with landowners. Zip, zilch, zero. None.


Yes, yes. I agree that one of the appropriate roles for a GCC type organization is, in addition to advocating on behalf of climbers, to attempt to lead the pack of climbers towards doing things like, for example, being environmentally respectful and respectful to land managers decisions, etc. They've done an ok job as far as that goes, but they can not lead a horse to water and make it drink. There's a difficult balance to be struck because climbers can be led only so far. The GCC can't move mountains, and they can't, as part of negotiating some hypothetical landowner agreement, make promises that the remainder of the climber/preservation community can't or won't keep. If you ever do decide to restart any negotiations, you'll certainly have to keep that in mind. Meanwhile, the constant complaining about the current management only serves to... make things more personal.

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#44891 - 05/22/09 04:48 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: Kent]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Originally Posted By: Kent
As for the rest, the GCC's past conduct, including the lack of members or current elections, has given them zero credibility with landowners. Zip, zilch, zero. None.

I don't see how a constructive relationship with landowners can ever evolve as long as the current players at the GCC are involved.

Let's step back a moment and clarify something...
How much of once or currently climbed cliff sections are under landowner control as opposed to being on Preserve lands? Specific cliff names would be helpful if it doesn't infringe on "private knowledge" or brings up sensitive access issues. Meaning, we know about the section of the Nears and Kent's section of the Bayards. We know that certain named cliffs are on Mountain House property or under PPIC control. I'm not suggesting that you say "Obscure cliff xyz is owned by Mr. Black". I suspect that most climbers didn't even know about Paul et al and their cliff till it was discussed here, but we all know that the AI Wall is privately owned and currently off limits.

What I'm really trying to get at in a Devil's advocate kind of way is, does the GCC need to be all that concerned about credibility with the local landowners or do the really only need to deal with the hotel, Preserve, and PPIC? Does the credibility of the GCC with landowners actually matter? How much climbing or potential climbing is owned by small landowners?
_________________________
- Marc

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#44892 - 05/22/09 04:52 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: MarcC]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Roughly the middle third of the Nears and the southern half of Millbrook. There are other less signifcant crags scattered around as well.

Edited to add:
If the middle third of the Nears and the southern half of Millbrook don't really matter to climbers then yeah, the lack of GCC credibility with landowners doesn't really matter either.


Edited by Kent (05/22/09 04:55 PM)

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#44893 - 05/22/09 05:01 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: Kent]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
But, not all parties who own private land as mentioned above have any intention of joining the Kent Brigade.

Who's intending to go to the next GCC meeting, if I may ask?(If so, I could use a ride to/from Slime). Or better yet - can we have the meeting there? That would make it really convenient...for me. hahahah

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#44895 - 05/22/09 05:24 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: TerrieM]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Terrie is right. Each landowner is different. But the more entitlements the community, including the climbing community, pushes for, the more upset they become and the more likely they are to close their land and leave it closed.


Edited by Kent (05/22/09 05:44 PM)

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#44896 - 05/22/09 06:59 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: Kent]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Originally Posted By: Kent
But the more entitlements the community, including the climbing community, pushes for, the more upset they become...

Um, what additional "entitlements" are the climbing community seeking?
_________________________
- Marc

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#44897 - 05/22/09 07:45 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: MarcC]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
When the no trespassing signs get torn down, that has an affect on the sentiments of landowners.

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