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#45026 - 05/27/09 05:23 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: pedestrian]
Julie Offline

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: pedestrian
My opinion is that you owe Paul a sincere, well-thought-out apology.

Edited to add: and Chris, and Annie, and, oh hell, the list is growing faster than I can keep track of.

I couldn't agree more. Kent had some pretty provocative (to say the least) things to say about the Chris-es the last time this all went around, and I'm way too uninterested to drag them out of the woodwork, but - quite uncivil. Quite unimpressive, as a "representative" of ... anyone.

(but then of course, he'll add a ps like, "how's your mother doing?" as if that makes it all better)

#45032 - 05/27/09 06:29 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: Julie]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Julie, what are you talking about?

Edited to add:

Oh. I see. You're posting up to talk about something you're not interested in talking about.

Julie (Member #42)
Last Online: 05/27/09 10:12 PM

Edited by Kent (05/28/09 02:40 AM)

#45040 - 05/27/09 08:48 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: pedestrian]
PAF Offline

Registered: 02/20/04
Posts: 33

You are so amazingly dense when you keep saying "My land". Its not just "my" decision and you have never asked what "my" opinion was once in the discussions with the "GROUP" that owns the crag and the "GROUP" that made the decision to allow access by invitation only. The GROUP, "read majority rules", doesn't want the place over run, so live with it. You cannot say I am hypocrite if you never asked what my PERSONAL opinion on the matter was. Lastly, this forum is a waste of my time for this land owner discussion, when all you do is resort to faceless name calling and don't actually act on anything yourself.


#45065 - 05/28/09 12:09 AM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: pizzaman]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
Originally Posted By: pizzaman
Too bad the U.S. didn't have more civilized, English-type access laws, so we could avoid the squawking from lord-of-the manor types.

GCC may have its head up the a** of local land managers, who have their heads up the a** of local to-the-manor-born types, bird-watching zillionaire board members, gentlemen climbers, etc., (all of whom Spatz once described to me, in zombie zoning board staff-speak, as "stakeholders") --- none of whom put a priority on the interests of the poor, dumb-a** non-resident climber scum.

Good evening, Pizzaman,

Having never recalled using the word "stakeholders" in conversation or in print, I'd would be pleased to learn otherwise. If I remember correctly, you did take exception to my use of "mitigation" regarding efforts to remind users of the MUA to follow the posted rules.

Since the GCC has a long record of supporting efforts to keep the MUA open, including offering to pay for port-a-johns, doing trail and campsite maintenance, and reminding climbers that responsible stewardship of the MUA is the best defense against the campground's closure, I'm not sure how this could be construed as bowing to monied interests or not advocating on behalf of average climbers, as I explained at the end of this thread:

Regarding your paraphrase of my response to your offer, if again I remember correctly, we had several people, including myself, entrusted to the work. I thanked you for your generous offer, courteously, since even with those I disagree I rarely find the need to respond otherwise (I think Kent would agree), but had to respectfully decline the offer. Though I do remember attempting to make light of several personas, including the bureaucrat, I can lapse into depending on the situation, I apologize if you found my exchange with you offensive. That's certainly never my intention in any such exchange, especially one in which a donated service was being offered.

What any of this has to do with an unrelated poem that appeared in the FOS newsletter, wherever it happened to be placed, is beyond me. The newsletter has been a terrific outlet for every Gunks-related subject and concern I wish to raise, from challenging the usage, translation, and origins of Shawangunk, to bat, coyote, and cougar essays, to questioning the efficacy of targeted deer hunts on our degrading understory (what we really need are big predators). It's the best single outlet to reach insiders on Gunks minutia, and I'm grateful that they continue to provide a forum for me, though I've never been a member.

Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

#45069 - 05/28/09 01:26 AM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: yorick]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
In my experience, Chris Spatz has always been a stand up guy.

#45074 - 05/28/09 10:14 AM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: Kent]
LarE Offline

Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 45
Originally Posted By: Kent
In my experience, Chris Spatz has always been a stand up guy.


#45079 - 05/28/09 01:13 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: LarE]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Yeah, he'd stand up to steal your chair out from underneath you!! Just kidding, he's peachy keen,and he is afterall, the Reverend of the Gunks.


#45083 - 05/28/09 01:27 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: LarE]
pizzaman Offline

Registered: 05/24/09
Posts: 59
Yeah, I used to publish "poetry" in the NRA's house journal. But that doesn't make me a right-wing nutcase. Just that I love Charleton Heston!!

And like, I totally understand that you don't need any help. On behalf of all climbers, I'd like to thank you for helping. You've helped make the world a better place, and that's like, so helpful !!!

I wonder what sort of work the GCC has been doing lately, along with its chalk-cleaning project, to keep people informed about status of the DEC's "Shawangunk Unit Plan" and its potential affects on the MUA.

#45090 - 05/28/09 03:52 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: pizzaman]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
I agree with Spatz on the angle of sharing information and creative work in the FOS newsletter regarding the Ridge. I have contributed photos in the past. What I do oppose to is the politicking that comes with it. I would love a newsletter or other venue to contribute and share work with that is not tied to any political stance or debate.

Over the years as I

#45095 - 05/28/09 06:45 PM Re: NEW GCC ELECTIONS [Re: PAF]
mworking Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 764
Originally Posted By: PAF
forum is a waste of my time for this land owner discussion...and don't actually act on anything yourself.


I think you identified people who behave in an unapreciative and hostile manner toward you, and who should get a no should they ever ask for permission to climb.

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