Characterizing the plight of landowners as part of a small town political pissing contest demonstrates that you are unable to empathasize with the fate of landowners.

Gardinerites fighting over whether or not we will have sidewalks in the village and who will pary for them if we do is a small town political pissing contest. Gardinerites fighting over whether or not we will have a sole appointed tax assessor is a small town political pissing contest.

Characterizing the fight over a zoning law that gravely affects the financial security and well being of people living on the ridge, as a small town political pissing contest, trivializes the people and their fate.

And Marc, the zoning law could be repealed tomorrow and the land in the Nears would still be closed for an indefinite period of time. So tell me, how am I being intelectually dishonest? I've been as blatantly honest and candid as I can possibly be.

Too bad the U.S. didn't have more civilized, English-type access laws, so we could avoid the squawking from lord-of-the manor types.

GCC may have its head up the a** of local land managers, who have their heads up the a** of local to-the-manor-born types, bird-watching zillionaire board members, gentlemen climbers, etc., (all of whom Spatz once described to me, in zombie zoning board staff-speak, as "stakeholders") --- none of whom put a priority on the interests of the poor, dumb-a** non-resident climber scum.

That'll change some minds, won't it?

"Gentlemen Climbers" - Now there's a term I've never heard before!

I like it. I can't help but imagine Mr. Douglas(Green Acres) in his spanking fresh Prana attire, with a tidy rack of double cams in sizes(no Aliens, of course), trying to get his city-girl up the route on Toprope without breaking a nail.

Unfortunately, not much different than what we have all seen too often.

Hey Ped,

1. I'm land owner hostile? Why, because I called Paul out on his calling on the GCC to intervene in the nears while keeping his land closed? I have stated from the get go that Paul can do what he pleases with his land and all the power to him but the hipocrisy is profound. Paul can go on and on about the Cereus way crag not being a destination crag, parking, access determined by a group, etc but in the end if you call on the GCC or other authorities to intervene with access issues while your crag is closed you are not only a hipocrite you are a first class douche.

2. While on the topic of first class douches, and I mean this with the utmost respect, Where are all of Nate's bright ideas?

3. I offered my OPINION on the GCC and the roles that are not being played by our representatives. My solution was to hold new elections. If you don't like it, say so and move on, but you keep talking like some guy who likes the sound of his own voice. I think Dizz makes some good points and nominations could be held online so maybe it's time to nominate some new blood.

Jgreene: The GCC isn't your's to control. But, like them you have your own oganization with no members!

However the GCC manages their "memberless" organization, it does a fair amount of well documented good work.

Paul is not a hypocrite by asking the GCC to work on the Nears issue. His land, as he has stated, is not closed to climbing, but merely requires that you ask permission of the land owner. Seems to me that is a pretty fair balance of protecting his land owner rights while at the same time being generous to the outdoor recreation community. I don't see how asking someone for permission to use something that is theirs is an imposition.

As far as your "idea" for new elections, thats quite a contribution to the climbing community. You sat at your keyboard and told everyone on a website that you think there should be elections. That is really putting yourself out there and really giving of yourself. New elections is not an idea, but merely a way for you to spout off instead of actually doing something. If this is so important to you then go to meetings, participate in a meaningful way and contribute to solving real issues.

Thank you for proving my point beyond a shadow of a doubt. Calling a landowner a dbag... very mature way to make your point. Yes, you are landowner-hostile, and you have like zero social skills, and if the GCC ever has guys like you running the show, we will be screwed.



You'd be the expert on that. I think you'll find that opinions are like a_holes: everyone has one. My opinion is that you owe Paul a sincere, well-thought-out apology.

Edited to add: and Chris, and Annie, and, oh hell, the list is growing faster than I can keep track of.

Since you asked where my ever so bright ideas are, presumably concerning how to deal with the Nears issue, my opinion is that we should not approach the landowner in question. He's represented by Kent, so let him approach us - he already has. If Kent has anything to offer, let him make an offer, otherwise let him pipe down.