those people you mentioned RT have NO credentials just a bunch of weenies that write a How To book.

if you want credentials for pbaordon i can say he is one strong mofo

so you choose not to provide any information, credentials, or justification of your cryptic and rather hypocritical comments other than "its calculated" - so you're just trying to sell people on some bullshit to make a buck??? or what???

I thought he was offering the opportunity to try a new program for free, be a guinea pig in other words. I'm not clear on why this is so horrible.

its not. but why all the cloak and dagger garbage?

happy to answer questions but he wont
wants to let people know about it but wont say anything about it
the internet is appropriate but its not
money isnt the only thing - time is important too
i asked some legit questions

same sales pitch used by any number of different self-help books, videos, counselors, websites etc, not to mention a dozen different cults, religions, ponzi and pyramid schemes...

why not give some more information. i want volunteers but wont tell you anything else is sort of a weak pitch in any game.

and talus each of those people have a variety of training, a list of accomplishments and have produced results - i didnt ask for degrees or certificates or other embossed pieces of acid-free paper...i asked for a reason why someone should listen to him

you gave one reason - he could have easily said the same - "i follow this program and i'm one strong motherfucker" - that would be a good start

RangerRob,

Case in point, it's like you just read the beer taps man, try actually ordering one.... IT"S KOSTRITZER DUMB ASS. anyway just stick to ice water, it will be better in the long run with those 5.11's your working on.

take away one of the 1's in that number dude. Sounds like you're spending waaaaay too much time at the Brau eyeing other people. Can you spell c-r-e-ep-y? Please don't tell me I have a stalker

Peter,

Tell me, did you first come up with this idea after you saw me down-climb from high in the off-width on Inverted Layback 6 years ago?

I think it's pretty common for a product to be kept under wraps until it's ready for release.

redtag...beware, the route on the cover of "How to Climb 5.12" is actually a 5.11.