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#45347 - 06/06/09 01:19 AM Re: Time for e climbing ethics debate [Re: camhead]
Dizzy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 2177
Loc: Berkshires, MA and Ahlington, ...
Originally Posted By: camhead
Fine, upstanding paragons of moral virtue, you are, and I know how tough it must be as New Yorkers and Easterners for you not to steal something.


I guess this is the part of this mea culpa that bugs me. It's the unabashed moral superiority of those from somewhere out west. Those of us from the uncouth east who must have a crisis of faith to pass "free gear" don't need this sanctimonious judgement. I have found that too many folks from Boulder and SLC are just insufferable with their condemnations of the "east coast" vibe. Guess what_ not all of us fit your stereotype.

Ta,
Dizz
_________________________
I can handle reality in small doses, but as a lifestyle it's way too confining
-Lily Tomlin

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#45352 - 06/06/09 04:20 PM Re: Time for e climbing ethics debate [Re: Dizzy]
clausti Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 6
Originally Posted By: Dizzy
I guess this is the part of this mea culpa that bugs me. It's the unabashed moral superiority of those from somewhere out west. Those of us from the uncouth east who must have a crisis of faith to pass "free gear" don't need this sanctimonious judgement. I have found that too many folks from Boulder and SLC are just insufferable with their condemnations of the "east coast" vibe. Guess what_ not all of us fit your stereotype.


um, enough people were having a crisis of faith about "free gear" that was up for an afternoon that there was a four or five page thread about whether it should rightfully have been taken before the climber posted up.

and it's not the whole east coast, it's just new england. people in wv, for example, don't consider gear for working a route to be fair game if you walk away for a couple hours.

and speaking of east coast- i'm from south carolina. so while my judgement may be regional, it's not from out west.

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#45353 - 06/06/09 05:28 PM Re: Time for e climbing ethics debate [Re: clausti]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
New Yorkers can be quite wily in their ways when it comes to redefining your property as theirs.

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#45355 - 06/07/09 01:01 AM Re: Time for e climbing ethics debate [Re: clausti]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2957
Loc: LI, NY
fixed gear! fixed gear!
lets go steal it!

:0
smile
_________________________
tOOthless

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

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#45370 - 06/08/09 01:42 PM Re: Time for e climbing ethics debate [Re: empicard]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2677
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
For any interested, I gave an effort on a 1.5 tricam stuck just off the deck on Belly Roll, after the party gave up on it, and it remains for the taking. I hang my head in embarrassment.

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#45372 - 06/08/09 02:04 PM Re: Time for e climbing ethics debate [Re: Dizzy]
camhead Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: Dizzy
Originally Posted By: camhead
Fine, upstanding paragons of moral virtue, you are, and I know how tough it must be as New Yorkers and Easterners for you not to steal something.


I guess this is the part of this mea culpa that bugs me. It's the unabashed moral superiority of those from somewhere out west. Those of us from the uncouth east who must have a crisis of faith to pass "free gear" don't need this sanctimonious judgement. I have found that too many folks from Boulder and SLC are just insufferable with their condemnations of the "east coast" vibe. Guess what_ not all of us fit your stereotype.

Ta,
Dizz


Good. I was hoping that comment would get a rise out of somebody! Seriously, though, every time a debate rises on ther climbing websites about what defines "booty," or when it is appropriate to gank fixed gear, Northeasterners are always the most eager to claim it, and the most hostile to the idea of just letting it be.

That said, however, y'all do have some very nice people at the Gunks. Clausti (my wife) and I had been chatting with someone at the crag for only about an hour when they offered us a room to crash in that night!


Edited by camhead (06/08/09 02:16 PM)

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#45374 - 06/08/09 02:40 PM Re: Time for e climbing ethics debate [Re: camhead]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
.....I hope you didn't take them up on it! You know, the whole body organ black market thing is pretty tempting for New York/Easterners looking for an opportunity to steal something.

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#45382 - 06/08/09 03:53 PM Re: Time for e climbing ethics debate [Re: camhead]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Originally Posted By: camhead
Seriously, though, every time a debate rises on ther climbing websites about what defines "booty," or when it is appropriate to gank fixed gear, Northeasterners are always the most eager to claim it, and the most hostile to the idea of just letting it be.

I was born and raised in the Northeast, lived most of my adult life there, and climbed in the Gunks for almost 30 years. So, to this comment about the eagerness to claim booty.....
I agree.
_________________________
- Marc

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#45406 - 06/08/09 07:53 PM Re: Time for e climbing ethics debate [Re: MarcC]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
I think the point of ther thread initially was to raise the question of what the local ethic in regards to fixing a route with your gear and leaving it for a later send. Whether it actually inconvenienced anyone is irrelevant. I think that fixing gear on a route that is by no means a test piece or an unfinished project is not acceptable here in the Gunks. It may be acceptable in other places, and that's fine, I would respect that. But don't come to my crag and fix a line of gear and then leave. It's not acceptable here. It will be removed!

The question becomes more vague when we are talking about unfinished projects, or something hard enough that it may only have a couple of ascents. Is it right that Spinal Traction be fixed with free gear so that someone can work it for a free ascent? Maybe, but the fact still remains that if someone wanted to go aid it, (and they surely do..it is not an abscure route by any means), then the presence of that gear is fucking up their ascent.

I have no problems with fixing a route to pinkpoint it at all. But don't leave the cliff. Hang out at the base and relax...then send. At the Gunks,once you leave, that gear is free for the taking.

It has nothing to do with eastern climbers being used to living in the ghetto. There's plenty of hoods out west. That's a piece of crap argument. It's about local ethics, pure and simple. Take 10 minutes and ask what the local ethic is before you do something like that.

RR

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#45410 - 06/08/09 08:02 PM Re: Time for e climbing ethics debate [Re: RangerRob]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
RR - Don't I hear your cell phone ringing?

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