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#62168 - 01/03/12 08:10 PM Re: Worst 3 star route? [Re: RangerRob]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
It may not get 3 stars in the book, but Overhanging Layback doesn't deserve any stars as far as I am concerned. The crux on this thing is completyely contrived. It's 5.7 only if you do everything in your power to avoid the footrail 6 inches lower that makes it about 5.4. Shitty climbing.

Agreed it's not a good route, but the 5.7 is the awkward, chimneyish start to get established on the traverse, not the traverse under the flake itself, precisely because of that foot rail.

Never Never Land - you and others may not like it, but it's excellent preparation for routes in other areas - many routes in Tuolumne Meadows and Free Blast on El Cap immediately come to mind.

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#62169 - 01/03/12 08:18 PM Re: Worst 3 star route? [Re: retroscree]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
Never Never Land also isn't over above the face. The headwall exit left is steep, tricky to figure, and a little run out. The opening face moves are no gimme, either.

It's way more than just the crux.
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it\'s Shawank-unk.

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#62170 - 01/03/12 09:24 PM Re: Worst 3 star route? [Re: yorick]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Great Retro, you just advised me of one route in the Valley to avoid. Yeah I guess i didn't find the opening chimneyish 5.7 to be that bad...oh well, still didn't like it.

I have to say, as an overall line, Grand Central is a bit....pieced together. Not terrible, but certainly that the fabulous 3 star 5.9 it is touted as being.

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#62172 - 01/04/12 12:16 PM Re: Worst 3 star route? [Re: RangerRob]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
i agree w Rob on never never land. ultra polished. all the stuff i did in the valley tuolumne were cracks nothing like nnl
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#62173 - 01/04/12 03:01 PM Re: Worst 3 star route? [Re: talus]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 319
Originally Posted By: talus
all the stuff i did in the valley tuolumne were cracks nothing like nnl


ah, well you missed 90% of the fun. There is no grip quite like standing on nothing, way TF above the last bolt and with another mile or so to go. That said, I don't have the head for that stuff these days. I used to lap that stuff up but it just evaporated. Odd that.

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#62175 - 01/04/12 09:29 PM Re: Worst 3 star route? [Re: AOR]
wombat Offline
member

Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 147
Loc: gardiner
C'mon RR! The NNL gear is much closer than in tuolumne though the ground is too. i like to sketch myself on it once a year when its cool. Run a more direct line in one pitch on grand central.

agree with shockleys, disneyland, overhanging layback, city lights, belly roll, bloody bush, turdland, something not that interesting

3 doves is better than arrow/limelight. travels/strickly/shockleys cures the flaws in all of those for a 3 star outing.

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#62176 - 01/04/12 11:20 PM Re: Worst 3 star route? [Re: RangerRob]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Originally Posted By: RangerRob

I have to say, as an overall line, Grand Central is a bit....pieced together. Not terrible, but certainly that the fabulous 3 star 5.9 it is touted as being.


Wunsch and I fixed that years ago. It's called Penn Station in the guidebook and has a separate top to the right of the the Grand Central finish, but I think the route is best done as Grand Central direct, i.e. follow the Penn Station start to the beginning of the steep wall that forms the first crux of Grand Central and then carry on up Grand Central from there. Grade is maybe 10a or 10b, plus every good bit of the regular Grand Central route. Pro is probably PG, G for the hardest part.

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#62177 - 01/05/12 12:34 AM Re: Worst 3 star route? [Re: talus]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: talus
all the stuff i did in the valley tuolumne were cracks nothing like nnl

What's the point of going to Tuolumne if all you're going to do are crack routes?

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#62178 - 01/05/12 03:39 AM Re: Worst 3 star route? [Re: retroscree]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
Originally Posted By: retroscree

What's the point of going to Tuolumne if all you're going to do are crack routes?
that's what i dig. dig it
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John Okner Photography

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#62179 - 01/05/12 04:16 PM Re: Worst 3 star route? [Re: rg@ofmc]
Frank Florence Offline
addict

Registered: 01/05/00
Posts: 528
Loc: moved to Bend
RG,
I looked at Penn Station's first pitch as a var. start to Grand Central and, as a line, it looks good from the ground. But I held off because Dick called it 10 b/c, PG, which for me is a push. You're giving it a slightly easier grading all around. Second thoughts on the matter?

And put me in the column of someone who likes GC. The crux in the middle is good, thin climbing and despite what Dick sez, the final roof doesn't have to be hard for the shorter climber.

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