Shout Box

Who's Online
1 registered (Rickster), 4 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 8 of 19 < 1 2 ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... 18 19 >
Topic Options
#39548 - 09/06/08 02:07 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: talus]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2954
Loc: LI, NY
no. but i have come to the conclusion that im boycotting the election.
i live in NY. my electoral vote goes to obama no matter what i do.
_________________________
tOOthless

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

Top
#39549 - 09/06/08 02:14 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: empicard]
oenophore Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5963
Loc: 212 land
I assume though you'll vote for candidates for other offices. Your rationale for not voting for pres./vp has been mine for voting for "third party" candidates over the years.
_________________________

Top
#39550 - 09/06/08 02:23 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: talus]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
[quote=talus]one of the bigger issues is who is going to go after the frat like Senate and Lobbyists.[quote]

I can't speak about the Senate, but as for lobbyists...

As one representative told me, "lobbyist" should not be a pejorative term. Sometimes laws contain provisions that affect businesses in ways that the lawmakers might not be aware because they lack the relevant expertise in those fields. I see nothing wrong with an industry representative going up to a legislator and saying "You know, you may not be aware, but this law is going to do x, y, and z, and that's going to be really bad for business. Maybe you could revise it this way and still accomplish your goals without such an adverse affect on us." That's a win-win.

The problem is when they start getting favors. And their leverage for favors has been providing gifts and money. The situation has improved somewhat with the ethics reform in this Congress, though there are still loopholes. But there are still campaign donations to be dealt with.

So if we want to free legislators from lobbyists who use money instead of arguments to advance their causes, we need to replace their money with our money through robust public campaign financing. I don't believe in banning speech, so I'm against prohibiting business from taking out ads for or against candidates, but we can have a system where candidates at least are not dependent on business funding. As one (conservative) state legislator elected under Arizona's "clean elections" law put it, he likes the state's public campaign finance system because when a lobbyist walks into his office, he can tell him to go to hell.

On this issue, I'd again say Obama has the stronger hand. Yes, he's raising money privately while McCain has accepted public funding. But as I wrote before, I think the presidential public funding system is simply inadequate to the task. Also, Obama and the DNC are refusing lobbyist and PAC money (though it's probably not all that much in the scheme of things this cycle). Most importantly, Obama is a cosponsor of legislation that would institute an Maine/Arizona type "clean elections" law for Congress; McCain has refused to endorse the system, saying that it needs more time to see if it works (it's been in place in AZ since 2000).

I've talked to a number of people serving in Congress about this issue, and they've all said they support some kind of public financing system (which makes one wonder why there's so little discussion by them on this issue). Though the present system gives them an advantage, lots of them say they don't like spending a third of their time raising money. But it's going to take a push from us to give them the political will to change. Write your representatives. This reform would be relatively cheap, and we'd get some if not all of the money back if it results in fewer taxpayer giveaways.

For more information, see Public Campaign.

Top
#39551 - 09/06/08 02:35 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: empicard]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
 Originally Posted By: empicard
my electoral vote goes to obama no matter what i do.


Yeah, that's a problem. But we can solve it by enacting laws state by state that would give those states' electoral college votes to the winner of the national popular vote when enough other states have done so to constitute an electoral college majority. Four states constituting 50 EVs have already done so. There's no reason why only those voters in a few swing states should determine the presidential election. And no constitutional amendment necessary: the Constitution gives states the authority to distribute their EVs as they see fit.

More info at National Popular Vote. Write your state legislators, tell them you're tired of your state being ignored in election after election.

Top
#39552 - 09/06/08 02:44 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: talus]
mworking Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 764
First I must admit that very recent Obama votes and decisions have tempered my enthusiasm just as they disappointed Daniel. I want to thank him for his clear explanations that are not in following discussion. Despite this I have far more hope in Obama than any other candidate including Hillary, who I originally supported despite many disappointments in her.

 Originally Posted By: Daniel
 Originally Posted By: smike
Originally Posted By: Smiketruth be told at least on the current financial well being you need to look across the board at the Democrats for approving all the spending (as they have been in control of the congress for quite some time.) So your punishment needs to be a little broader then the just GOP.


The years of approval of military spending without any real conditions is what I think amounts to my largest grip I have against the Democrats.

Good points.

 Originally Posted By: talus
one of the bigger issues is who is going to go after the frat like Senate and Lobbyists.

 Originally Posted By: Daniel
Because he's the only remaining candidate who may ask us to take responsibility for our government again.


I feel there is reason to believe or a least hope Daniel's response is correct and that Obama might be far better than any other candidate. I think he might explain to the public and rally them to support them to support congress for the issues he feels must pass. The following quote is from the top of his campaigns home page:

“I’m asking you to believe not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington...I am asking you to believe in yours”.

His original grass roots based campaign, and oratory skill have a chance of making a real difference. He just might be idealistic enough and inexperienced enough to try and successfully pull it off. There are no guarantees, but I am willing to be hopeful for a bit.

Whether or not Obama can do great things or not supporting him is a no brainer for me since I so strongly disagree with his opponents on almost every issue.

Top
#39559 - 09/07/08 10:22 AM Re: The Candidates [Re: mworking]
oenophore Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5963
Loc: 212 land
Mworking, perhaps I can convert you to my point of view. New Jersey will go for Obama without you. Maybe there is another on the ballot whose policy and record are more to your liking. It's so daunting to hear or read something like "I'm going to hold my nose and vote for ____."
_________________________

Top
#39563 - 09/07/08 05:17 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: oenophore]
mworking Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 764
 Originally Posted By: oenophore
Mworking, perhaps I can convert you to my point of view. New Jersey will go for Obama without you. Maybe there is another on the ballot whose policy and record are more to your liking. It's so daunting to hear or read something like "I'm going to hold my nose and vote for ____."


No, at least I don’t think so. I am an Obama supporter, and I don't know of anyone I would favor over him. I am just disappointed in the less aggressive stance he has taken recently, including the votes Daniel mentioned. As I explained I was happy to read Daniels explanations – they made me feel a bit better.

Is there someone I should know more about?

Top
#39564 - 09/07/08 06:27 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: empicard]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
 Originally Posted By: empicard
no. but i have come to the conclusion that im boycotting the election.
i live in NY. my electoral vote goes to obama no matter what i do.


This is an unusual election. I wouldn't count on anything, some of the states that are normally not in play may turn out to be in play...

Top
#39565 - 09/07/08 08:40 PM Re: The Candidates [Re: pedestrian]
mworking Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 764
 Originally Posted By: pedestrian
This is an unusual election. I wouldn't count on anything, some of the states that are normally not in play may turn out to be in play...


and Obama is an unusual candidate. I am convinced prejudice will keep him, from doing as well in the election as polsters predict.

Top
#39566 - 09/08/08 12:00 AM Re: The Candidates [Re: mworking]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
 Originally Posted By: mworking
I am convinced prejudice will keep him, from doing as well in the election as polsters predict.


There's a lot of debate about this. Given that there are so many non-racist reasons one could give not to support Obama, I don't see why people would decline to declare their opposition to a pollster out of fear of being seen as racist. Also, Harold Ford did just about the same as the pre-election polls predicted when he ran for Senate in Kentucky last cycle.

How race may or may not affect how undecideds break going into the voting booth is another matter.

I do think, though, that New York is safely in the Obama camp. You won't see much in the way of presidential ads except as spillover from other markets which may be in play.

Top
Page 8 of 19 < 1 2 ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... 18 19 >


Moderator:  webmaster 
Sponsored