Not sure if this has been discussed:

http://www.osiny.org/site/PageServer?pagename=PressRelease_03_10_2010&autologin=true

Open Space Institute

Wow. I didn't see that coming. I truely hope this does not mean an eventual parking lot and trail to the base of Millbrook. Can't imagine OSI would go for that but who knows? Certainly better than having the cliff closed by land holders, eh?

There was a GCC email and FB announcement made about the acquisition, but I haven't seen any discussion about it aside from the usual congrats and stuff.

I have no idea what the preserve will do, I hope just leave it alone (in terms of adding parking lots or permanent structures). With the current zoning, could they even build a driveway or parking lot?

Nice to have it protected.

Yes, and it's nice to know some fat cats are still fat and generous.

I'm haven't followed who owns what at Millbrook, so forgive my ignorant questions.

Does anyone know how much of the cliff face was purchased? (Like the southern half? All of it?) Also, how much of the cliff top does this include? The map shows a skinny property that connects Mountain Road to Minnewaska.

I guess the real question is: After the Preserve begins management, will climbing at Millbrook be legal and assured?

Jim,
It covers south of what is currently Preserve Land (which stops at around Westward Ha)
All cliffs on Preserve are / will be legal to climb on. I think this is good news for all of us.
We're still in process of figuring out exactly which routes will be covered. I'm thinking (hopefully) as far south as the Old Route.

PS. there won't be plans for a parking lot or trail; I don't see how that could happen.

Phlan,
Given the substantial misunderstandings that often surround Millbrook, could you elaborate a bit?

That press release didn't help, talking about 67 acres of cliff rather than 67 acres; and "Weissner and Kraus forged a path on the highest cliff in the area—located on the just-protected Millbrook Mountain Cliffs parcel," which I guess means they forged the first routes on Millbrook - but what route did they forge ON this parcel? The High Traverse + Recollection?

And re: you don't see how trail/parking could happen - could you just elaborate a bit as to the reasons, to avoid confusion?

And how do you figure out which routes are covered? Is there a decent survey or property boundary, or what?

Thanks.

And for Jim Lawyer:

Forgive MY ignorant questions, but I went to OSI's website and apparently they've just gotten a chunk of land on Poke-O - is that the private bit of Poke-O, or further north?

Thanks!

there won't be plans for a parking lot or trail; I don't see how that could happen.

With a permitted access corridor, this may lead to cars parked along the highway as they used to be near the Trapps in times gone by as well as impromptu trail(s) from the road to the cliff base.

It's hard to imagine this is anything but good news, although it really doesn't change the situation on the ground in the sense that climbing has occurred on the entire Millbrook cliff since the discovery of the Shawangunks by climbers.

As for the potential for providing access from below, my memory of that process, from back in the day when there was a landowner who allowed it, was that it had nothing to offer compared with what are now the usual means of approach. I certainly wouldn't go back to approaching that way, and I doubt anyone who tries it once, slogging up the long talus and then climbing the lower cliff band, will repeat the experience given the better options from the top. Perhaps some hikers might find a lower access point of interest, but I doubt this will have any effect in terms of increasing the climbing population at Millbrook.

A map will show a shorter car-to-climb distance from below than from above, but it doesn't show the detail of the routes. I know only the trails from the carriage road, not from below. But I suppose that if a trail were made similar to that from the present Preserve east parking area to Undercliff Road, it might just be a preferred approach. Of course this would take lots of cash and man-hours and might not provide enough revenue to make it worthwhile.

I did talk to the Preserve a little bit. There is no plan for parking or access from North Mountain Road. Mr. Studley has retained property along the road. no landowner in the vicinity wants cars along the road. Even if you slog up from the road with a land owners permission, it is doubtful you will want to do it again. so, the access will continue, essentially, to be from the top as it has "traditionally" been done by most climbers.
As to figuring out which routes will be covered, it will take a bit more research which I don't think anyone has done yet. GCC will look into this, we have someone with the tools to figure it out.
and, the 67 acres refers not to cliff but to the complete acreage including talus, cliff, and whatever else there might be.

tradjunkie, (Regarding OSI acquiring some property in/around Poke-O): This is the first I've heard about this. Can you provide a link describing the acquisition?

Never mind...here's the link. I don't know anything about it, though.

To my knowledge, even though some of the Poke-O Main Face is private property, every cliff on Poke-O Moonshine Mountain is open to climbing. This recent land donation, if it includes this private portion, would only help to make climbing more official and secure it for the future.

I think RG is right on the money here. Anyone who has traversed the talus below Millbrook will tell you, it would be way fatser to hike over the top and rap in than to approach from below. That talus field is way bigger than it appears from the valley. You only see a small portion of it when you look up. Just from looking at the map above it looks as if this acquisition may include a portion of cliff around White Corner. I'm no expert though.

RR

PAVE A ROAD! PAVE A ROAD!!!! YEEEEEEHAAAA!!!

How 'bout a zipline?

A zip line from the top of Millbrook out to the road? Preposterous! Sign me up! That might the the most profitable enterprise in the entire region, once you figure out a way to get Joe and Jill Buffet to the top. Maybe if you dangle beer in front of them the whole way up...

Have them drive up around. Then zipline the car down as well.

Excuse me gentlemen..this forum is for SERIOUS discussion only. You're degrading the superb quality of this site with your......drivel.

RR

Hey! I don't drivel until I'm on my 3rd or 4th oil can (mmmm, Fosters).

I have climbed up that way perhaps 50 times or more! Climbing up from the base takes less time, and climbing back down is even shorter. You can slide down the hill in the winter, wow! It is also more traditional, starting from the bottom rather than the top to climb a mountain, and gives you something to contemplate and look at all the way to the base, you get to look at the whole cliff! There is a phenomenal difference if you start here; it's actually part of the climb. If you start around the middle, you will be hiking up through woods until your reach the top of a hill. That hill goes back down a ways, and then you go up another long wooded hill that goes back down a little, and then you go up another hill to reach the boulder-field. After this you should cross the boulder-field at its weakest point. Here there is often mist coming out from under the rocks, there is ice under there through the spring. Then you go up another hill covered in some orange boulders until you reach the cliff. The views are amazing and the hike can be more enjoyable than the climb itself. And this comes from someone who hates to hike. In the winter we would leave steps in the snow. Coming back made it like climbing stairs to the base of the cliff, way cool. It really makes you feel like a bit of a mountain climber and it takes less time. Rapping of the top is for sissies.

Donald, are any of the current landowners on North Mountain Rd allowing climbers to cross their property to do what you suggest?

I would guess the answer to that is no. But with this new land below the cliff it could some day now likely happen, right? I think it would be great if I could park at the base and hike up. Yea ... sorry I did not spell that out in the previous post.

But with this new land below the cliff it could some day now likely happen, right?

The map in the link in the original post in this thread makes that seem doable. It would take time, manpower and money for the ideal setup I suggested in a prior post here: a road leading to a parking area at the western limit of the Studley Property and, from there, a Stairmaster-like trail to the bottom of the cliff.

What a lofty goal that would be, but would the character of the crag then be changed? You betcha, but I think it would still be very worthwhile. I doubt the Preserve would want to leave someone down there checking permits but they don't bother now anyway and might be amenable to such a parking area and trail. I would expect many of us would volunteer to help.

would the character of the crag then be changed?

I'm not sure, but I suspect the swarms you see at the Trapps and Near Trapps are mostly those who couldn't do all but very few of Millbrook's routes. A first Millbrook trip might be a rite of passage of sorts for those whose standard is well improved.

I thought that was the case now, and if the charachter of the crag were to change, then that might not be the case in the future!

Millbrook is accessible right now via a $6 parking fee, a 15 minute easy bike ride, and a 150' rappel. I doubt making an hour long stairmaster approach from the bottm is going to make it more appealing to the masses.

Empire pass

Even better.

I can not park there, they lock the gate at sundown. I for one have never finished climbing there before then. It's too much trouble to get there than to go back early and worry the whole way if you will make it on time before they lock your car in for the night and ticket it. And, as far as I am concerned, you can't ride a bike through the snow, but you can slide down the hill. Furthermore, there is a lot of radiant heat that radiates off that big white wall I would be missing out on. Often it is so hot down there, even in the winter, that you need shorts. It must be 30 degrees warmer.

However, then again, I am eligable for a free wheel chair from the government, I should have had a hip repacemnt. So if I get one of those souped-up with low and high gears and put some large tires on it I could make it through the snow after all. I can make a running board for Ranger Rob so he can ride on the back of it at 20 mph.

Donald, are you saying you want me to be your biker bitch?