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#51255 - 04/13/10 12:34 PM Three Doves pin
alwechs Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/26/01
Posts: 17
Anyone climb Three Doves (5.8+) recently? I haven't done it in years and I was wondering if the last manky pin right below the crux is still in place. I was climbing Annie Oh last year and looked over, but couldn't tell if it was there. It would be good to know before I do it, seeing as how it's the only pro until the big roof at the top.

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#51257 - 04/13/10 02:17 PM Re: Three Doves pin [Re: alwechs]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2675
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
It was still there this past fall. An excellent candidate for removal and possible replacement if the remaining hole won't accept small gear.

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#51262 - 04/13/10 03:12 PM Re: Three Doves pin [Re: chip]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
Yeah, that pin is pretty key. I'd agree that it might be wise to replace it before it's in too bad a shape to be able to clean.

But my vote ain't worth shit.

GO

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#51268 - 04/13/10 06:52 PM Re: Three Doves pin [Re: GOclimb]
llamaclimber Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 7
It's still there as of about 2 weeks ago, and while it's nice to clip, it's definitely one of those "well, it'll slow me down..." pieces.

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#51270 - 04/13/10 07:24 PM Re: Three Doves pin [Re: llamaclimber]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2675
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
I can't remember the size of the pin real well but it looked to me like it might be a stubby one without much at all of a crack above or below, so it does make for a necky run out above the tree with that pin looking iffy. At best, a ball nut or small C3 placement if the pin comes out clean.

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#51274 - 04/13/10 09:21 PM Re: Three Doves pin [Re: chip]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2467
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
You can add to the slowing down process with, I think, a pair of micronuts below the pin. I agree with Chip that the pin is probably a short horizontal (short-thin or short-medium) and might be hard to replace with gear if it comes out. For many years it looked pretty good.

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#51275 - 04/13/10 09:50 PM Re: Three Doves pin [Re: rg@ofmc]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
I've gotten a VERY small BD micronut - maybe a #2? just under the pin. Nice placement; but still a low-single-digit kN rating, albeit with a fairly low fall factor. The angels on your pin's head may dance differently, however.

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#51276 - 04/13/10 10:02 PM Re: Three Doves pin [Re: Julie]
tradjunkie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 364
Originally Posted By: Julie
I've gotten a VERY small BD micronut - maybe a #2? just under the pin. Nice placement; but still a low-single-digit kN rating, albeit with a fairly low fall factor. The angels on your pin's head may dance differently, however.


I'm with you 100%. For the fall factor, that solid micronut is plenty. The pin is just a bonus backup.

Having said that, I'm sure I'll deck next time I'm on it and pull out both micronut and pin, just to prove I'm an a**hole.

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#51285 - 04/14/10 08:30 PM Re: Three Doves pin [Re: tradjunkie]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
Originally Posted By: tradjunkie
Originally Posted By: Julie
I've gotten a VERY small BD micronut - maybe a #2? just under the pin. Nice placement; but still a low-single-digit kN rating, albeit with a fairly low fall factor. The angels on your pin's head may dance differently, however.


I'm with you 100%. For the fall factor, that solid micronut is plenty. The pin is just a bonus backup.

Having said that, I'm sure I'll deck next time I'm on it and pull out both micronut and pin, just to prove I'm an a**hole.


No it's not.

According to BD, the rating on their # 2 micronut is 3KN. I've fallen on that pin from the crux move above it (long story), with a screamer on it. The screamer is designed very specifically to start ripping at 2KN, and maintain that force until the stitches all rip. The stiches *did* rip, so without the screamer, the force on that pin would have been over 2KN. At 140lbs, I'm a lightweight, so I think the chances are pretty good that anyone who fell from the crux onto that nut, perfectly placed, would blow it.

Again, since I'm not a local, feel free to ignore it, but my opinion remains that the pin is a critical piece, and it would be awfully nice of someone to replace it with a new one before it rots and cannot be removed.

GO

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#51288 - 04/14/10 10:33 PM Re: Three Doves pin [Re: GOclimb]
tradjunkie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 364
Originally Posted By: GOclimb
Originally Posted By: tradjunkie
Originally Posted By: Julie
I've gotten a VERY small BD micronut - maybe a #2? just under the pin. Nice placement; but still a low-single-digit kN rating, albeit with a fairly low fall factor. The angels on your pin's head may dance differently, however.


I'm with you 100%. For the fall factor, that solid micronut is plenty. The pin is just a bonus backup.

Having said that, I'm sure I'll deck next time I'm on it and pull out both micronut and pin, just to prove I'm an a**hole.


No it's not.

According to BD, the rating on their # 2 micronut is 3KN. I've fallen on that pin from the crux move above it (long story), with a screamer on it. The screamer is designed very specifically to start ripping at 2KN, and maintain that force until the stitches all rip. The stiches *did* rip, so without the screamer, the force on that pin would have been over 2KN. At 140lbs, I'm a lightweight, so I think the chances are pretty good that anyone who fell from the crux onto that nut, perfectly placed, would blow it.

Again, since I'm not a local, feel free to ignore it, but my opinion remains that the pin is a critical piece, and it would be awfully nice of someone to replace it with a new one before it rots and cannot be removed.

GO


proving, as I suspected, that I'm an arrogant a**hole, but without the glory of me cratering blush

Although...

Oh, hang on a sec, the #2 STOPPER is rated to 2KN and the MICRO STOPPERs are rated higher and the nuts I sometimes use are rated even higher (DMM Wallnuts 7kN and 9kN). And as RGold notes, you can actually get more than one in, and I figured one had plenty of rope out for the FF if your belayer is at the GT ledge (was yours?).

So maybe we're both right. Still, I'd be happier without that manky pin. As is, I fear people will not back it up, so I'd be happier with it replaced (or just gone). Though you have demonstrated that the pin will hold up to 2 kN... grin

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