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#52416 - 06/02/10 03:51 PM Minnewaska Master Plan
Welle Offline

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 213
Loc: Western Slope
Just got this in the email. From a quick glance, the plan shows a campground (yaay!) and the climbing area to be extended to Dickie Barre (only frown ) and no ice climbing. In the light of current budget woes, it sounds like a small great victory, thoughts?

June 02, 2010

To Persons interested in Minnewaska State Park Preserve:

The Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation (OPRHP) is pleased to announce the findings and adoption of the Final Master Plan and Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) for Minnewaska State Park Preserve. The plan can be viewed at the following locations;

* MinnewaskaState Park Preserve - Park Office
* Palisades Regional Office - Bear Mountain
* Ellenville Public Library - Ellenville
* Elting Memorial Library - New Paltz
* OPRHP webpage -

The consideration period ends June 11, 2010.

Please feel free to contact myself or Mark Hohengasser at (518) 486-2909 should you have any questions or need further information.


Thomas B. Lyons
Director, Resource Management

NYS Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation
AgencyBuilding One
Albany, NY12238

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

#52419 - 06/02/10 05:01 PM Re: Minnewaska Master Plan [Re: Welle]
TerrieM Online   content

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 426
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
I just took a look(at c/site drawing). Looks like not so many walk-in tent sites.... Wonder what the fee differential between Walk-In and Park Next to sites will be.

While the campsite plan "looks nice," I can't help but be very sad about the advent of the End of Free Camping at the Gunks. Of course, considering the budget woes, I will add that just because the Master Plan has been issued doesn't mean that there is money to pay for the changes it says will be implemented.

I find it difficult to believe that c/g will come into being any time soon if any monetary support whatsoever is to be required from the state. With teacher's jobs being cut it seems outrageous to me to go forward with a campground, especially when the MUA is still in existence right next door to the site.

#52430 - 06/02/10 08:44 PM Re: Minnewaska Master Plan [Re: TerrieM]
oenophore Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5981
Loc: 212 land
Of course, considering the budget woes, I will add that just because the Master Plan has been issued doesn't mean that there is money to pay for the changes it says will be implemented.

Things are expected to get worse for the state in coming years. I suppose that's a silver lining of sorts.

#52432 - 06/02/10 09:49 PM Re: Minnewaska Master Plan [Re: Welle]
gunkie Offline

Registered: 07/19/00
Posts: 120
Loc: New Hope, PA
Climbing isn't getting a huge bonus, but the rock access door is slight ajar. Dickie Barre [option 2] is not a bad addition. It's the addition of the 'option 3' stuff that gets me excited. Too bad 'option 4' wasn't the preferred choice.

What I cannot believe is the OK'd single track mountain biking trails around Lake Awosting. That's going to have a far greater impact on the environment than opening up the miles of cliffs to climbers. I love single track mountain biking. But some of these hardcore clowns will begin building ramps, jumps and off-piste trails. Just wait until the rangers come upon the free riding trails that were not authorized. Can anyone say 'banned'?

#52441 - 06/03/10 02:16 AM Re: Minnewaska Master Plan [Re: gunkie]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
On a quick read-through, it looks like climbers got nothing that we asked for at the public meetings and comment period. No ice climbing, no rock climbing beyond PK...

#52446 - 06/03/10 03:31 AM Re: Minnewaska Master Plan [Re: Mike Rawdon]
chip Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2679
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
The public meetings were merely to make the public think there was actually a chance that PIPC cared what we want.

#52452 - 06/03/10 02:30 PM Re: Minnewaska Master Plan [Re: chip]
Welle Offline

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 213
Loc: Western Slope
The comments section sheds more light on the plan. Here is what I found about the campground. First of all, it was moved to Priority 1, secondly they give some kind of time frame for implementation:

"Construction is anticipated to begin sometime during the next two-year period. At that time it is
anticipated that funding will be secured for the project."

The campground is named after Samuel F. Pryor III - perhaps the source of the funding...

#52454 - 06/03/10 03:25 PM Re: Minnewaska Master Plan [Re: Welle]
mtselman Offline

Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 50
Loc: NY, NY
A good friend of mine who does not post on this forum wrote the following letter after receiving an e-mail about Minnewaska Master Plan.
With his permission, I am posting his letter to Tom Lyons, Director, Resource Management OPRHP


Dear Tom Lyons,

I just read the final master plan for Minnewaska state park. With the great
regret (and no surprise) I see that rock climbing is still prohibited in
Minnewaska state park (with exception of a small area at Peterskill). Some
vague words about "identifying areas suitable for rock climbing" present in
the plan, change nothing. For dozens of years, Minnewaska state park
authorities have been ignoring numerous requests of rock climbers. We live
here, we vote, we pay taxes. In fact, your salary comes out of my state tax.
Still you ignore me and thousands of other climbers. At the same time, a
private non-profit foundation - Mohonk - has been successfully running a
huge rock climbing area without any legal or environmental problems. Unlike
Minnewaska state park, they are not subsidized out of state budget but they
care about us. You don't.

And it's not state vs private land issues. State authorities operating
Catskills and Adirondacks areas have no problems with rock climbing.
However, OPRHP parks instituted the biggest ban on rock climbing in United
States. For years we fought you but we could do nothing against you.

Who are you, Tom Lyons? What do you do? How do you work? How do you think?
How can you ignore us, people who pay your bills? You bought your car with
my taxes, you bought your house with my taxes. Every day you buy food with
money that comes out of my pocket. Your generous pension will be funded out
of my taxes. And yet I do not exist in your eyes. How can you justify
ignoring me and ignoring tens of thousands of other New York state residents
and tax payers.

You thrive on banning things, Tom Lyons. You banned rock climbing (outside
of Peterskill). You banned ice climbing. You severely regulate swimming. You
don't even allow hikers to step off a three meter wide road (when they walk
next to Minnewaska lake). And all your regulations are carefully upholded by
an army of rangers, paid out of my pocket.

Tom Lyons, you complain about Minnewaska state park's budgetary issues and
yet you hire numerous rangers to enforce all the regulations, build more
buildings, more parking lots and more roads in the park - clearly it's
necessary to protect the environment and save money. I was intelligent
enough to obtain a PhD degree from MIT in chemistry. I am not intelligent
enough to understand the logic behind your actions.

Martin Luther King had a big soul and he had a big dream. Unlike him, I have
a small soul and I have a small dream. I just wish to be able to climb and
swim and hike and camp. I wish my taxes supported the Mohonk foundation and
not Minnewaska state park.


Boris Itin, Ph.D.

#52456 - 06/03/10 03:56 PM Re: Minnewaska Master Plan [Re: mtselman]
chip Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2679
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Strong stuff, there, and I don't disagree with any of it. Unfortunately, I doubt that Tom Lyons has all the say in this matter but I expect that the message was clearly understood. True change about the policies and practices of PIPC will only occur when there is adequate pressure from the state governments of NY and NJ.

#52466 - 06/03/10 06:08 PM Re: Minnewaska Master Plan [Re: chip]
SethG Online   content
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 714
Loc: NYC
I don't know if Tom Lyons is in control of all this or not, but does the letter writer really think accusing him of not caring about the taxpayers is going to help the situation? Does anyone actually think he doesn't care about the taxpayers? Isn't it more likely that he just has a different vision of his duty to the taxpayers than we might wish he had?

The invocation of Dr. King is also a bit ridiculous.
It's true, I have a blog.

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