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#54768 - 09/13/10 07:03 PM
Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation
[Re: pda]
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old hand
Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 988
Loc: The Bayards
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Anybody see this study that was released this summer?
= = = = = =
Study Shows Preservation of the Shawangunks is Good Business
June 28, 2010 - For decades, Minnewaska State Park Preserve, Mohonk Preserve and Sam This study, worked on by both Mohonk Preserve Executive Director Glenn Hoagland and MP Communications Director Gretchen Reed is exceedingly misleading in that it disregards the contributions made by members of the local community, nor does it put the jobs and economic activity generated by Minnewaska State Park, Sam's Point, and the Mohonk Preserve in context. The 350 jobs created, while very important, are just 0.04% of the population of Ulster County. So too, the $12.3 million dollars in economic activity generated by tourists represents about 0.04% of the income generated in Ulster County. In short, the economic activity of people who live and/or work locally along with the economic activity of people who pay property taxes locally dwarf the economic activity of tourists. This perspective is conveniently overlooked by the study.
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#54770 - 09/13/10 07:25 PM
Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation
[Re: Kent]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
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This study, worked on by both Mohonk Preserve Executive Director Glenn Hoagland and MP Communications Director Gretchen Reed is exceedingly misleading in that it disregards the contributions made by members of the local community, nor does it put the jobs and economic activity generated by Minnewaska State Park, Sam's Point, and the Mohonk Preserve in context.
The 350 jobs created, while very important, are just 0.04% of the population of Ulster County. So too, the $12.3 million dollars in economic activity generated by tourists represents about 0.04% of the income generated in Ulster County.
In short, the economic activity of people who live and/or work locally along with the economic activity of people who pay property taxes locally dwarf the economic activity of tourists.
This perspective is conveniently overlooked by the study. And your analysis is flawed because you're looking at the entirety of Ulster County instead of the necessary regional view.
_________________________
- Marc
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#54771 - 09/13/10 07:26 PM
Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation
[Re: pda]
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old hand
Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 988
Loc: The Bayards
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Another view of the matter:
= = = = = = =
The Case for Eminent Domain in the Shawangunks
Posted April 9th, 2010 by steven1222 Using eminent domain to create a Shawangunk Ridge National Park is a pipe dream, as well it should be. But pda, you can help protect a landscape important to climbers right now. A group of residents in the Town of Gardiner is raising money to help the Open Space Institute purchase a conservation easement for Kiernan Farm, which is a prominent feature in the landscape as viewed from Millbrook. Anyone can make a tax deductible contribution by following this link. Pda, you seem to be an open space advocate, so please make a contribution and post up about it, thereby setting a good example of constructive open space advocacy for your fellow climbers.
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#54772 - 09/13/10 07:31 PM
Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation
[Re: MarcC]
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old hand
Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 988
Loc: The Bayards
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This study, worked on by both Mohonk Preserve Executive Director Glenn Hoagland and MP Communications Director Gretchen Reed is exceedingly misleading in that it disregards the contributions made by members of the local community, nor does it put the jobs and economic activity generated by Minnewaska State Park, Sam's Point, and the Mohonk Preserve in context.
The 350 jobs created, while very important, are just 0.04% of the population of Ulster County. So too, the $12.3 million dollars in economic activity generated by tourists represents about 0.04% of the income generated in Ulster County.
In short, the economic activity of people who live and/or work locally along with the economic activity of people who pay property taxes locally dwarf the economic activity of tourists.
This perspective is conveniently overlooked by the study. And your analysis is flawed because you're looking at the entirety of Ulster County instead of the necessary regional view. Marc, the MP impacts the tax burden of the entire county. But even using just the eleven municipalities within the so called Shawangunk Mountains Regional Parternship, the economic activity of tourism would still be dwarfed. Either way, my point was they provided no perspective at all. It was just a bought and paid for propagandistic cheer leading piece for the Preserve and company.
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#54773 - 09/13/10 07:35 PM
Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation
[Re: Doug]
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old hand
Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 988
Loc: The Bayards
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He is trying to convince himself he is being fair and open here and with the neighbors he is meeting with, but anyone who takes a critical look will see through it. Doug makes a great point about thinking critically, and MPNA should be held to account for what they say, and in some cases for what they don't say. So too should people think critically about what the Mohonk Preserve says, and what they don't say.
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#54779 - 09/13/10 10:36 PM
Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation
[Re: Kent]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4158
Loc: Poughkeepsie
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The 350 jobs created, while very important, are just 0.04% of the population of Ulster County.
If 350 jobs represent 0.04% of the population, then there are 875,000 people living in Ulster County. The US Census Bureau disagrees with you by nearly 700,000. link to USCB data Are your economics "facts" any better?
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#54780 - 09/14/10 12:46 AM
Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation
[Re: Mike Rawdon]
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member
Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 103
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So that suggests something on the order of .2% of the population, instead of .04%. Still not a lot, all things considered. On the other hand, right about now, a .2% increase in the unemployment rate would not be good news, so I wouldn't say it's insignificant. On the third hand (which would come in handy climbing sometimes), you'd have to weigh that against the economic benefits of putting in condos, McDonald's, etc.
I guess overall, I'm a little skeptical of basing arguments for conservation purely on economic grounds. It's nice if it works out that way, but most of the time, I suspect it doesn't. If we have to rely on economic arguments to preserve desirable environmental/scenic/recreational areas, we won't have very many of them.
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#54782 - 09/14/10 01:05 AM
Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation
[Re: Mike Rawdon]
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old hand
Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 988
Loc: The Bayards
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Thanks for the correction Mike. I was doing math in my head while driving and then calling that result up from memory. So much for my memory, and perhaps my vehicular math too for that matter.
More accurately then, 350 jobs works out to about 2/10 of 1% of the population of Ulster County.
My economics were similarly mangled and also comparing apples to oranges. The $12.3 million in economic activity attributed to Minnewaska, Sam's Point, and MP is just over 3/10 of 1% of the income earned by the 181,440 people living in Ulster County.
My point remains the same. Job creation and economic activity attributed to the Preserve is dwarfed by the rest of the job creation and economic activity in the area.
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#54795 - 09/14/10 12:26 PM
Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation
[Re: Kent]
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addict
Registered: 08/30/01
Posts: 610
Loc: Bergen County NJ
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The Case for Eminent Domain in the Shawangunks Posted April 9th, 2010 by steven1222 Using eminent domain to create a Shawangunk Ridge National Park is a pipe dream, as well it should be. But pda, you can help protect a landscape important to climbers right now. A group of residents in the Town of Gardiner is raising money to help the Open Space Institute purchase a conservation easement for Kiernan Farm, which is a prominent feature in the landscape as viewed from Millbrook. Anyone can make a tax deductible contribution by following this link. Pda, you seem to be an open space advocate, so please make a contribution and post up about it, thereby setting a good example of constructive open space advocacy for your fellow climbers. Apparently Gardiner has decided not to use any of the $1.5 million it already approved for open space funding and instead has decided to solicit 'contributions' from residents to keep taxes down. So it sounds like the anti-preservation forces are already winning here. All you need to do is keep it going for 3 years, and perhaps the bulldozers can get started. I already donate to OSI.
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#54798 - 09/14/10 01:09 PM
Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation
[Re: curt]
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old hand
Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 988
Loc: The Bayards
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Well, naturally if you disagree with the results of a study, the study must be flawed.
Curt
It's not that I disagree with the results of the study or the study is study flawed. My point is the study lacks perspective.
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