Cool. I've climbed and hiked around Bonticou a few times, so I've probably seen it. Have only climbed in the area sort of to the right of the trail that goes to the top, and as far downhill as that cave with the big overhanging roof though. Also poked around in the talus cave... that's not really my thing though, I've decided.

School takes a lot of time and what with the ruptured ligament in my hand and all I haven't really been climbing much so we'll see if I make it back to the gunks more than once or twice this year... I'll let you know next time we're in town though!

Poseur, I don't have any answers to your recent questions but instead have a quick comment about the perspective of the study referenced upthread on the job creation and economic activity of MP, Sam's Point, Minnewaska State Park inspired tourism.

One perspective that could be enlightening would be how that activity compares with the rest of the job creation and economic activity in the area.

My comparisons used Ulster County because those are the only numbers readily available. Reducing the area of comparison to the eleven municipalities in the so called Shawangunk Mountains Regional Partnership would be more accurate but those numbers aren't readily available.

The reason I think such perspective would be enlightening is everyone else in the community makes a significant economic contribution, much more significant than tourism associated with the three entities listed above.

Oft times, when Preserve tactics are criticized some invoke Preserve related economic activity as a defense, as if to say the ends justify the means.

In my opinion, these ends don't justify the means.

Rob, I don't know if you mean this Joe but I am fully psyched to visit Sunbowl with you this fall; Let's hit it! Had a great time exploring Lost City with you yesterday. How about "Orange Ya" for that route?

I think he meant "my" Joe

I'll climb with anyone named Joe, especially if they pull down as hard as WhatTheGunks!! Julie I will send you a note next time we plan on going out there.

Way back in the day I went to Sunbowl with a good friend and his college climbing buddy, both of whom were pulling 12s and working on an FA they thought would go at 13. Doug eventually moved west and went as hard as 14s. The "warm-up" route was supposed to be a 9 but was certainly at least 10 and I couldn't get off the ground on their proj. Prolly didn't help that it was overcast and a high temp of 25F. Young and dumb...

hey, i have a thought. how about an association for folks like me who have no meaningful work, hobbies, or relationships with others and kind of lurk around in the gunks... what would we call it?????(this is not a troll!)


hank alicandri

Skinks sounds like fitting name to me, Hank. They keep the bugs under control, as well as keeping me company sometimes on ledges. 'Course, I'm not implying that your neck is short, you have a long tongue, or anything like that.

RR,

You said: "Advo, what is INHERENTLY wrong with building a house on a .4 acre lot? Is that worse or better than building a house on a 10 acre lot? Which fragments the ecosytem more? Would you rather have 50 homes in a 25 acre footprint, or 50 homes in a 500 acre footprint? Which do you think would fragment wildlife corridors more? Which would carve up the landscape more?

It sounds like you look down upon anyone who can't afford a 30 acre wooded lot in the Town of Gardiner, adjoining the Preserve. It sounds like you look down upon anyone who can't afford to hire a licensed land surveyor to survey their property because YOU want them to. It sounds like you look down upon a lot of people who may not be as well off as you."


Rob your math is way fuzzy and it sounds like you are pretty sensitive about money so with that in mind here is what is offered. First off Marc and others have been highly critical of the way neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve use their land. It's hypocritical to live on a .40 acre lot and tell others that development is bad. Municipalities across the country are all zoning larger lot sizes because they feel it's better for their respective towns. It is better in fact to build a house on 10 acre zoning than .40 acre zoning because a developer can but more houses in with .40 acre zoning therefor fragmenting the ecosystem more. As a state forest ranger you should know this, your above example makes no sense...Thanks.

MPNA

Poseur,

We'll try and get the info for you this week regarding the Haviland parcel. The Mohonk Preserve has always been the Plaintiff against adjoining landowners of the Preserve with regard to lawsuits involving land. Thanks.

MPNA