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#53839 - 08/12/10 06:59 PM Rosendale Waterworks Issue
Advocacy group Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Dear GCC board,

At last nights Rosendale town board meeting, the Rosendale town Attorney Shannon Lafrance met with the attorney representing an adjoining land owner to discuss access to said neighbors property. Apparently the parcel has been deemed landlocked with no access by the town, because of the sale to OSI. This parcel has been in their family for over 200 years and has always had access. The MPNA respectfully requests that since you were instrumental in OSI acquiring that parcel, you also voice you concern over this kind of conduct to OSI, the Rosendale Town Board, and to the Mohonk Preserve who will be acquiring said parcel. Thank You

The Mohonk Preserve Neighbors Association
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53841 - 08/12/10 07:28 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
I am not on the GCC board, but read this request with some interest. I am not sure why the GCC would be involved in the access issue of another land owner unless it was in the best interests of increasing climber access to a property. There does not appear to have been any unfair or unlawful intent by the GCC nor the court ruling to allow climbing access to said Waterworks property, even if the outcome was to cut off another property. With a many decades old access trail along the base of the Near Trapps suddenly cut off, when it clearly had no impact on the remaining property nor liability, I don't think the climbing community would be very quick to jump on board for you. That said, I do not begrudge anyone doing what they want with their own property, but I would not have gone in that direction personally.

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#53845 - 08/12/10 09:12 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
tradjunkie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 365
Thank you for at last posting some new information - news, no less...

I for one will consider your request as an individual (I'm not a GCC person), though I'd appreciate more clarity on the complaint - is there no easement of necessity etc.

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#53856 - 08/13/10 02:53 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: tradjunkie]
Advocacy group Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
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Tradjunkie,

I will post documents from the Waterworks Parcel as soon as we scan them. There is some interesting information surrounding the sale of this parcel.

Thanks,

The Mohonk Preserve Neighbors Association
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53860 - 08/13/10 02:09 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
I thought I might summarize what I said before. Lifting the ban on trail access along the base of the Near Trapps would go a long way toward gaining climber sympathy and support for the access issues your other property owner has since the sale of the Waterworks property.

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#53866 - 08/13/10 08:54 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chip]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
I'm curious - how did this landowner access their land prior to the recent sale? Wasn't it landlocked before? It's not like any roads were closed.

And I'm with tradjunkie on this one. As an individual, I would write a letter to the relevant municipal authority urging accommodation in exchange for say, a letter granting me and my climbing partners transgress permission to those closed x feet of trail at the Nears.

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#53870 - 08/14/10 12:56 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Timbo Offline
addict

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 694
Loc: Delaware
Really. First you (not YOU personally, but other concerned landowners with the same problem that are clearly at the very least, acquaintances) close a common access trail across one of their properties to climbers and now you want OUR help ?

That takes some big nads man.

I respect the owner's right to close their property to access and I have respected that closure from day one, but no way are you getting my help to support you after that action.

I also don't get the point. How did the parcel become "landlocked" after the transfer ? New survey ?
_________________________

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#53882 - 08/16/10 11:49 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Timbo]
Advocacy group Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Timbo,

Sorry to hear that you can't see the difference between Kent's apparent issue and that of the MPNA. Do you not support the Mohonk Preserve because Skytop is closed?

on a more on topic note:

We will try and get documents related to the Waterworks Parcel and this particular neighbors access issue up this week. Just curious as to why none of the GCC board members have responded?


Edited by Advocacy group (08/16/10 11:53 AM)
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53883 - 08/16/10 01:22 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 694
Loc: Delaware
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Timbo,

Sorry to hear that you can't see the difference between Kent's apparent issue and that of the MPNA.


I have seen nothing that separates Kent from the MPNA. Kent is a preserve neighbor, as far as I can tell he has (at the least) a loose association with the MPNA, and like it or not, as a self-decreed spokesperson for local landowners, Kent has
turned most climbers against local landowners by claiming to speak for them and then closing access.


Originally Posted By: Advocacy group

Do you not support the Mohonk Preserve because Skytop is closed?


The Mohonk Preserve had nothing to do with closing Skytop. That was done by the Mohonk Mountain House, which is neither owned by, controlled by, or affiliated with the Preserve. More importantly, the Preserve did not SUPPORT the Skytop closure as far as I know.

I assume you are drawing a comparison to Kent's closure and your organization. The difference here is that other local landowners SUPPORTED Kent in his access closure and Kent has affiliation with your organization (unless you tell me otherwise), which I assume also supported Kent's closure (again, unless you say otherwise).

TS



Edited by Timbo (08/16/10 01:23 PM)
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#53908 - 08/17/10 12:40 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: tradjunkie]
Advocacy group Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: tradjunkie
Thank you for at last posting some new information - news, no less...

I for one will consider your request as an individual (I'm not a GCC person), though I'd appreciate more clarity on the complaint - is there no easement of necessity etc.


Tradjunkie,

Here is what was said at the Rosendale Town board mtg.......

Thanks,

The Mohonk Preserve Neighbors Association

http://townofrosendale.com/TBmin2010.cfm

TOWN OF ROSENDALE
TOWN BOARD MEETING
JUNE 9, 2010

The meeting was called to order at 7:30 pm by Supervisor McDonough at the Rosendale Community Center with the Pledge to the Flag.
PRESENT: Councilman Robert Gallagher
Councilwoman Manna Jo Greene
Councilman Kenneth Hassett
Councilman Richard Minissali
Supervisor Patrick McDonough
ALSO PRESENT: Fred Greitzer, Planning Board and ZRC; Terry Johnson, Water/Sewer Superintendent; Perry Soule, Acting Police Chief; Jack Synder, W/S commissioner.
Under Public Comments:
Frank Drake of Morgan-Keator Farm located on Hillcrest Lane off Mountain Rd. wanted to set up an appointment to meet with the Town Board about access to his property. Supervisor McDonough said he would meet with Mr. Drake to talk it over. Karl Wick asked if Mr. Drake wants to meet with the whole board why is the Supervisor talking about a separate meeting between the two of them. Supervisor McDonough said he sometimes meets with people to see if he can help without getting the whole board together. Fred Greitzer suggested that maybe Billy Liggans could be included with the Supervisor and Mr. Drake. Someone had asked what the problem was exactly. Supervisor McDonough stated that Mr. Drake's property was now land locked.
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53916 - 08/17/10 04:01 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Is Supervisor McDonough a licensed land surveyor, deed researcher? How do you know what he said is actually true? I could say my property is worth a million dollars. It doesn't necessarily make it so.

What you're telling us is that due to this land transaction, a previously accessible parcel has become landlocked? Could you give us the section block and lot so we could see it on the Ulster County parcel viewer? It's kin dof hard to envision how this could be without seeing reference material. Thanks

P.S. the address to the Ulster County parcel viewer is below

http://gis.co.ulster.ny.us/


Edited by RangerRob (08/17/10 04:03 AM)

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#53920 - 08/17/10 11:50 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
SnowJunkie Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 27
Loc: NY
I believe the parcel in question is
SBL: 07000300020040000000
Print Key: 70.3-2-4
Owner Name: Drake, Frank P
Acres: 115.8788
_________________________
Do Today What Other's Won't;
So You Can Do Tomorrow What Other's Can't

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#53922 - 08/17/10 12:23 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: SnowJunkie]
Advocacy group Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Thanks SnowJunkie,

That is the Morgan/Keator farm that has been in the family for over 200 years. This land is owned by the family, not just Frank Drake. Very nice people.

The Mohonk Preserve Neighbors Association
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53924 - 08/17/10 01:56 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
RR,

This is not what I'm telling you, this is what the supervisor for the town of Rosendale is telling the landowner. Apparently it carries enough weight to get attorneys involved. We'll post the outcome as soon as we have it.

Thanks,

The Mohonk Preserve Neighbors Association
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53927 - 08/17/10 02:42 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chevy Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 7
A farm? When was that property last farmed? Its property classifaction is 240 Rural Residence with Acreage A year-round residence with 10 or more acres of land; it may have up to three year-round dwelling units. Its not a farm! Out of his 115 acres mabey 5 are not wooded. Its a hunting property.
His right of way is shared with the waterworks on the east and three neighbors to the west. John Samuels, Skylake Lodge and Shambhala, International. I am confused on how its now land locked, seeing that his road runs along the boarder of ALL of these properties. This is all on the ulster county parcel viewer. Frank Drake is the only person listed as owner. Please try to be more accurate and less misleading if you want people to stand behind you. I am not sure where i stand on these issues.

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#53928 - 08/17/10 02:47 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chevy]
chevy Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 7
Frank Drake SBL 07000300020040000000

John Samuels SBL 07000100040180000000

Skylake Lodge SBL 07000100040170000000

Shambhala, International SBL 07000100040160000000

Waterworks SBL 07000200020070000000

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#53929 - 08/17/10 02:49 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chevy]
Advocacy group Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Chevy,

Try to do a bit more research before spraying. Property came through a will and there are many landowners not just the one on the deed. Morgan/keator farm is how the property is known for those of us in the know. But Yes it is not actually a working farm, good work Chevy on tour first post.
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53933 - 08/17/10 03:01 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chevy Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 7
spraying?? try clairifying. in the know?? i know it was never a farm. you can own property without being on the title? What about the other neighbors that boarder/share his right of way. Hillcrest lane is the right of way.

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#53935 - 08/17/10 03:09 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chevy]
Advocacy group Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Chevy,

Too much of what you are saying is flat out wrong to continue this discussion with you. Case in Point: "It was never a Farm" Do you know even know who Keator was?
Which Keator Mr Historian?
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53936 - 08/17/10 03:51 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chevy Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 7
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Thanks SnowJunkie,

That is the Morgan/Keator farm that has been in the family for over 200 years. This land is owned by the family, not just Frank Drake. Very nice people.

The Mohonk Preserve Neighbors Association


From what you said: Sounds like a family farm for 200 years. Wouldn't be against zoning laws to operate out of your classification? Its classified as rural residence not a farm. That is my point.

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#53938 - 08/17/10 03:55 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chevy]
Advocacy group Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Chevy,

What makes you say it's a hunting property?
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53939 - 08/17/10 04:27 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Are you talking about the landlocked parcl off of Clearwater Road, out by table Rocks? Up on top of the ridge with the swamp in it? if that's the property we're talking about, then I am pretty sure it isn't landlocked. If I'm not mistaken, the owner there has a right of way through the gate at table Rocks, along Clearwater Road. I've personally seen him driving his jeep through there during hunting season. That property adjoins the house at the end of Hillcrest, no?
If these aren't the properties you are discussing, can you please provide either a sec/block/lot, or a coordinate, or a graphical description of where it is? It would just help if people here knew exactly where all of this is taking place.

Maybe part of the reason you're getting so much push back is because the majority of the people who post here know nothing about the preserve beyond the climbing areas. Perhaps you should volunteer to lead a hike to some of these places to really get people interested in what is going on. I for one would sign up. I suggest right after big game season closes. Still a nice time of year to get out and walk around, and you'll be able to see through the woods better without the leaves.

RR

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#53940 - 08/17/10 04:39 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
RR,

The hike is a great idea, We'll talk it over with some of the landowners. The former William Ayers property with the swamp that the Mohonk Preserve just purchased is not the parcel in question. The SBL provided by Chevy is correct (Drake Parcel). Why is that road (Clearwater)gated off?
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53941 - 08/17/10 04:49 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
The minutes do say "Hillcrest Lane off Mountain Road".

Hillcrest Lane cuts through 4 parcels before it gets to Drake's parcel according to Google Maps. In addition to the parcels chevy listed, there's one more right off the road that's private.

Just speculation... could the access to Hillcrest Lane have been cut off by one of the other property owners to prevent access to the Waterworks parcel (which is landlocked otherwise).
_________________________


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#53942 - 08/17/10 04:57 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: quanto_the_mad]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
"Just speculation... could the access to Hillcrest Lane have been cut off by one of the other property owners to prevent access to the Waterworks parcel (which is landlocked otherwise)."

QTM,

No, landowners do not have that power. That usually comes from a municipality. The only way a private landowner canclose a road is to erect gates..........

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53943 - 08/17/10 05:16 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
Unless it's not an actual municipal road to begin with. I have no idea whether it is or not, it just doesn't appear on the parcel viewer which is why I'm wondering if it's an access issue with the road.

So my question (and I think of chevy) is how is the parcel landlocked? The waterworks parcel is off to the side, so how does that affect access if it doesn't interfere with Hillcrest Lane? Does the town supervisor know something about that road that we don't?


Edited by quanto_the_mad (08/17/10 05:19 PM)

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#53944 - 08/17/10 05:44 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: quanto_the_mad]
chevy Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 7
I just noticed two small parcels to the north of the waterworks that also share the same hillcrest lane right of way. Both are owned by Nathan Boxer sbl 07000200020060000000 and sbl 07000200020050000000. The properties i listed before and boxers all (seven parcels in all) share the same right of way, which is a dirt road going all the way to drakes.

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#53945 - 08/17/10 05:46 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chevy]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Hey Chevy,

Nice work! Now what's the name of that road?

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53946 - 08/17/10 07:16 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chevy Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 7
as stated before; hillcrest lane is the right of way shared by seven parcels. it is a dirt road and appears to run along the property line of seven properties. Whats your point? I think we (me and others here) are in agreement that the waterworks sale shouldn't affect anyones right of way. I would like to know how the waterworks property grew in size (and who was paying taxes on land they didn't own) and it doesn't appear the sale price went up. I am glad rosendale taxpayers are asking these same questions.

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#53952 - 08/18/10 12:08 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chevy]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Did William Ayers recently pass away? I met him either last hunting season or the one before then and he didn't seem to be going anywhere.

But as for the hike....like I said, I would be interested to see firsthand how these properties are being affected by the Preserves land acquisition practices. if you come up with a date, please let us know. Thanks!

As for the gate at the north end of Clearwater Road, I presume it was put up to prevent illegal motor vehicle use. Having a road like that open for anyone to drive in invites all sorts of unwanted activity...illegal dumping chief among them. Is there a question about the roads current status? Again, it doesn't sound like Clearwater road affects any of these properties, so the point is moot.
RR

RR

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#53953 - 08/18/10 12:08 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
I often like to repeat my name

RR

RR

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#53982 - 08/19/10 01:16 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Did William Ayers recently pass away? I met him either last hunting season or the one before then and he didn't seem to be going anywhere.

But as for the hike....like I said, I would be interested to see firsthand how these properties are being affected by the Preserves land acquisition practices. if you come up with a date, please let us know. Thanks!

As for the gate at the north end of Clearwater Road, I presume it was put up to prevent illegal motor vehicle use. Having a road like that open for anyone to drive in invites all sorts of unwanted activity...illegal dumping chief among them. Is there a question about the roads current status? Again, it doesn't sound like Clearwater road affects any of these properties, so the point is moot.
RR

RR



RR,

No Bill Ayres did not die, he is around 80 or so though. He sold his lot to MP, yes the one that Clearwater goes through, that is gated........and not quite a moot point.......
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#53989 - 08/19/10 04:28 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Well what other property does the gate affect? You just said yourself that Bill sold his property, so he is not using the road to access his land anymore. While Clearwater road may not be legally abandoned, if it ever was a town road, the current ladnowner should still have the right to keep illegal motor vehicle use out. It's not used for ingress/egress by anyone other than the preserve, and the town does not maintain it. So how is the gate an issue? Further, what about the gate on the other end of Clearwater, out by Springtown Rd and the rail trail. I believe one of the MP neighbors has it gated off. If it's an issue for the Preserve having it gated on one end, why aren't we talking about the landowner on the other end? Of course, there is a huge ATV problem by the neighboring landowners on that end....running rampant through a fragile wetland and turning one of the coolest spots on the preserve into a shithole. But no one seems to be concerned about that.

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#54007 - 08/19/10 01:34 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Huh?
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54043 - 08/19/10 07:39 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Well, Clearwater road goes all the way over the ridge. It has a beginning and an ending, and it is gated off at both ends, but you only seem to question the gate on the Preserve side of it. If you have no problem with the private landowners on the Springtown Road side blocking vehicle access, why should you have problems with the Preserve blocking vehicle access? You know where I am talking about, right? The road used to come out just south of high school hill, now known better as Triple Right.

RR

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#54082 - 08/20/10 11:41 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Yeah I know the road you are talking about. The one that is gated on Springtown road, at the Diets farm, that has a beginning and an end, but that aint Clearwater! Where did you hear that was Clearwater by the way? However, if that was Clearwater, I would have a problem with it being gated.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54106 - 08/20/10 03:19 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
no I think Diets is the extension of the old road running off the end of Canaan, and crossing Cragswood. It runs north and eventually turns into Diet's fields I believe. Clearwater, if you follow the old 15 minute series topo runs through the notch south of High School Hill and out through the shale bank, eventually coming out across the Chruch Communities fields, where it is gated at the rail trail. You can follow evidence of the old road from Mountain road all the way over. It gets hard to find for a little way in the wetland, mostly because of all the illegal ATV erosion, but it is still there.

Now, wanna wager who owns those ATV's??

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#54108 - 08/20/10 03:29 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Now, wanna wager who owns those ATV's??

Obviously, as we've learned from a local neighbors association with membership numbering in the hundreds if not thousands, either the evil Mohonk Preserve or the evil Mohonk Mtn House, which any sane person knows are the same thing. I mean, since they're the source of everything wrong on the ridge, who else could it possibly be?
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#54120 - 08/21/10 02:04 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: MarcC]
pedestrian Offline
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Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Is there an echo in here?

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#54141 - 08/22/10 07:28 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
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Originally Posted By: RangerRob
no I think Diets is the extension of the old road running off the end of Canaan, and crossing Cragswood. It runs north and eventually turns into Diet's fields I believe. Clearwater, if you follow the old 15 minute series topo runs through the notch south of High School Hill and out through the shale bank, eventually coming out across the Chruch Communities fields, where it is gated at the rail trail. You can follow evidence of the old road from Mountain road all the way over. It gets hard to find for a little way in the wetland, mostly because of all the illegal ATV erosion, but it is still there.

Now, wanna wager who owns those ATV's??


Rob,

I respectfully disagree that the road that crosses at Diet's is Clearwater, however, if it was Clearwater, that gate was probably there while the RR (not you the other RR) was in service to keep cattle off the tracks as opposed to reasons why Mohonk Preserve gates roads. So who do you think owns those ATV's cause I know of way more than just one user.

MPNA
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The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54167 - 08/23/10 03:35 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
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I'm not stupid enough to accuse someone of illegal activities in a public forum AG. I may look gullable....but I'm not.

I think you are right though AG. Clearwater comes out on the Church Communities property. The road that comes out in diets' fields coems from the end of Canaan road. Be that as it may..there no cattle there anymore

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#54179 - 08/23/10 11:08 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
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Originally Posted By: RangerRob
I'm not stupid enough to accuse someone of illegal activities in a public forum AG. I may look gullable....but I'm not.

I think you are right though AG. Clearwater comes out on the Church Communities property. The road that comes out in diets' fields coems from the end of Canaan road. Be that as it may..there no cattle there anymore


RR,

Be that as it may, it's their private property and a private road...........

MPNA
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The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54190 - 08/24/10 01:26 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
pedestrian Offline
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I would like to take this moment to come out against speaking in code on the forum. If it can't be said in terms that we all understand & aren't loaded with "subtle" nuance, keep it in private messages. In other words: get a room, you two.

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#54195 - 08/24/10 04:57 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: pedestrian]
MarcC Offline
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#54202 - 08/24/10 01:25 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: MarcC]
RangerRob Offline
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Go suck a turtle egg Pedestrian. We're engaging in civil discussion that isn't "code". You're allowed to banter all you want, and so are we. Don't read it if you don't like it.

Advo, are you still talking about the Diets road, or the Clearwater Road? If you're saying the Clearwater road is a private road, then why is it a concern of yours that the Preserve has it gated off? If it's an unabandoned town right of way, then legally it shouldn't be gated off on either end. In the real world though, lots of unabandoned town right of ways get gated off, because the town no longer has an interest in it, and the gate does not impede ingress/egress for other property owners.

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#54211 - 08/24/10 10:48 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
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Yes the Diets road. It's a farm road on private property and is not for public use without the landowners consent. Clearwater is not owned by Mohonk Preserve and therefor should not be gated by Mohonk Preserve. For the record, before Bill Ayres sold his property, Mohonk Preserve had gated it, thus impeding access for Ayres. Mohonk Preserve eventually gave him a key to the lock but it still impeded his access while he owned the property.

"In the real world though, lots of unabandoned town right of ways get gated off, because the town no longer has an interest in it, and the gate does not impede ingress/egress for other property owners."

This is legally not true, the towns interest is not the issue, it's the landowners interest.

MPNA


Edited by Advocacy group (08/25/10 01:25 AM)
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The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54222 - 08/25/10 02:16 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
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Advo I don't think we are talking about the same road here. Clearwater very plainly comes out to Church Communities property, not Diets. I have followed the road that comes out on Diets field and it is the road that follows the east side of the ridge, going past the Conglomerate and crossing Cragswood. Look at the topo and you'll see what I mean. The roads are two independent roads.

The next question would be, was Clearwater ever a town road? If it was, was it officially abandoned, or did they just stop maintaining it...two very different things. If it was abandoned then the land goes back to the previous landowners before the road was vested. At least this is what I understand. If the road was always private, well then I'm sure there are easements for the road in those deeds somewhere, right?

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#54223 - 08/25/10 02:17 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
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RR,

Have you seen MP maps that list that private road on the Diets farm as Clearwater road? Have you ever seen a complete survey map of the lands of MP? Thanks

MPNA
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The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54224 - 08/25/10 02:22 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
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RR,

You have your roads confused. You are combining two roads. I'll try and post a map. But maybe you could post the source map where you are getting your info from.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54229 - 08/25/10 02:46 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
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Sorry, I'm not a technocrat. I know you can see all the old 15 minute series maps online somewhere, but you'll have to find the addy yourself. You're right, continuing the discussion is moot until we can both sit down and look at the same maps.

I'll ask you this, have you ever walked Clearwater from Table Rocks all the way out to Springtown? If you did, where exactly did you come out? On Diets property, or Church Cummunities?

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#54235 - 08/25/10 12:22 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
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Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Sorry, I'm not a technocrat. I know you can see all the old 15 minute series maps online somewhere, but you'll have to find the addy yourself. You're right, continuing the discussion is moot until we can both sit down and look at the same maps.

I'll ask you this, have you ever walked Clearwater from Table Rocks all the way out to Springtown? If you did, where exactly did you come out? On Diets property, or Church Cummunities?



Clearwater does not go to Springtown. The 15 minute Rosendale quadrant doesn't even name roads, it shows roads both public and private.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54238 - 08/25/10 12:36 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
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Okay, you win. Next topic?

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#54268 - 08/25/10 11:51 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
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Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Okay, you win. Next topic?


It just seems as though there is a lot of misinformation about who owns what, what is legal to climb vs what is off limits, is this road public or private etc...and people can only rely on hearsay because the Mohonk Preserve does not have a complete filed survey of their property.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54275 - 08/26/10 01:39 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
pedestrian Offline
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Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Go suck a turtle egg Pedestrian. We're engaging in civil discussion that isn't "code". You're allowed to banter all you want, and so are we. Don't read it if you don't like it.


Can't find any turtle eggs, you know where I can?

I believe the part where I bristled was all the insinuations about MPNA being just another illegal ATVer, and the subsequent back and forth. Way too "subtle" for me. Of course, I don't know why I care, given the MPNA/Kent/JGreene consortium's past tendency to lob personal attacks every which way.

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#54276 - 08/26/10 01:45 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chip Offline
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Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Okay, you win. Next topic?


It just seems as though there is a lot of misinformation about who owns what, what is legal to climb vs what is off limits, is this road public or private etc...and people can only rely on hearsay because the Mohonk Preserve does not have a complete filed survey of their property.

MPNA


It also appears that the surrounding properties should also have have surveys. I can't imagine buying a parcel without one, but understand that many of these were inherited. The burden is not on only one owner (MP) to demarcate the ownership and it appears that this process of defining boundaries is what is getting everyone's panties in a bunch. It will get sorted over time, through the courts, and does not neccessarily paint one side as an evil aggressor. I appreciate that each side must defend themselves in any legal confrontation but rarely does this warrant the vitriol I have seen in these threads. Thank you for informing us of your position and concerns.

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#54277 - 08/26/10 02:22 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chip]
Advocacy group Offline
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Originally Posted By: chip
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Okay, you win. Next topic?


It just seems as though there is a lot of misinformation about who owns what, what is legal to climb vs what is off limits, is this road public or private etc...and people can only rely on hearsay because the Mohonk Preserve does not have a complete filed survey of their property.

MPNA


It also appears that the surrounding properties should also have have surveys. I can't imagine buying a parcel without one, but understand that many of these were inherited. The burden is not on only one owner (MP) to demarcate the ownership and it appears that this process of defining boundaries is what is getting everyone's panties in a bunch. It will get sorted over time, through the courts, and does not neccessarily paint one side as an evil aggressor. I appreciate that each side must defend themselves in any legal confrontation but rarely does this warrant the vitriol I have seen in these threads. Thank you for informing us of your position and concerns.



Chip,

It is the position of the MPNA that all land owners should not only have surveys of all their lands but filed surveys of all their lands. Unfortunately the Mohonk Preserve appears to have done neither. The Mohonk Preserve and their sister groups are busy suing neighbors, towns, and government organizations in the meantime.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54280 - 08/26/10 03:16 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chip Offline
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Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
MPNA, I understand and appreciate your concerns. I submit that none of these legal conflicts over property lines will move forward without surveys being filed and the legal precedent will then determine the findings. Eventually it will all get sorted out.
No one enjoys being sued for any reason and it is rightly said that the only true winners of any court decision are the lawyers. Both parties will lose money. At the least, feelings are hurt and nasty things can be said/threatened. It is, however, a more pleasant way to decide these things than organising your homies and attacking the neighbors.
That said, you absolutely need to bring a vocal presense to educate the public to concerns you have, which is cheaper than, and may help keep you out of, court.

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#54336 - 08/28/10 02:35 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chip]
Advocacy group Offline
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Originally Posted By: chip
MPNA, I understand and appreciate your concerns. I submit that none of these legal conflicts over property lines will move forward without surveys being filed and the legal precedent will then determine the findings. Eventually it will all get sorted out.
No one enjoys being sued for any reason and it is rightly said that the only true winners of any court decision are the lawyers. Both parties will lose money. At the least, feelings are hurt and nasty things can be said/threatened. It is, however, a more pleasant way to decide these things than organising your homies and attacking the neighbors.
That said, you absolutely need to bring a vocal presense to educate the public to concerns you have, which is cheaper than, and may help keep you out of, court.



Chip,

The lawyers do not have to be the only winners. Climbers, MP neighbors and the Mohonk Preserve are all winners when both the Mohonk Preserve and all adjoining land owners surveys are filed. Filed surveys, open dialog and a
transparent agenda by the Mohonk Preserve will benefit everyone.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54350 - 08/28/10 12:00 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
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Loc: Ulster County, NY
Advo, do you have any idea how much money you're talking about in order for everyone to have a survey done of their lands? I'm guessing a lot of the landowners wouldn't be able to afford it. The only reason we got one when we bought out house is because I ran the rod for my surveyor, and he only charged me half price. Is the Advocacay Group in a position to help financially with this?

RR

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#54352 - 08/28/10 12:40 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
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Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Advo, do you have any idea how much money you're talking about in order for everyone to have a survey done of their lands? I'm guessing a lot of the landowners wouldn't be able to afford it. The only reason we got one when we bought out house is because I ran the rod for my surveyor, and he only charged me half price. Is the Advocacay Group in a position to help financially with this?

RR



RR,

A survey for most land is not that expensive. We have been putting together a list of properties that we feel are potential targets and are in contact with landowners and surveyors. Most surveyors are fair and are actually quite a good value. For those with large land tracts there is also usually a large pocketbook to support a survey and legal costs so we act more as a consultant.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54361 - 08/29/10 12:37 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
I think you and I are in different socio economic classes Advo. 500 bucks is not cheap. I don't think you'll find a surveyor willing to do work for less than that. It would be wonderful if everyone had up to date surveys filed, but it just isn't reasonable.

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#54367 - 08/29/10 03:12 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
Mike Rawdon Offline

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Registered: 11/29/99
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Loc: Poughkeepsie
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group


It is the position of the MPNA that all land owners should not only have surveys of all their lands but filed surveys of all their lands. Unfortunately the Mohonk Preserve appears to have done neither.

MPNA


Is such a survey legally required? If it is, then the neighbors may have grounds to file their own lawsuit. Against MP. I'm sure you have standing as an affected party. (not sure I'm using the legalese properly.) But maybe this is an instance of "people who live in glass houses..."

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#54397 - 08/30/10 01:29 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
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Originally Posted By: RangerRob
I think you and I are in different socio economic classes Advo. 500 bucks is not cheap. I don't think you'll find a surveyor willing to do work for less than that. It would be wonderful if everyone had up to date surveys filed, but it just isn't reasonable.



RR,

It is totally reasonable to expect that landowners to file their surveys. In fact your title company requires it(survey exclusion clause). Besides $500 plus a $10 filing fee is within most landowners budgets. It is certainly within the wealthy Mohonk Preserve's budget. The Mohonk Preserve is the Plaintiff in each and every lawsuit against their neighbors and they do not have a complete filed survey of their lands.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54403 - 08/30/10 02:17 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
AG are you saying that the MP does not have a filed survey of disputed land borders that are involved in court proceedings? I believe that to be highly unlikely.
I think it is incumbent on neighbors of the Preserve to also have surveys if they are concerned over property lines. My impression of what you have written is that you feel the Preserve is the only party that should have surveys, which does not make sense.

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#54411 - 08/30/10 05:57 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chip]
RangerRob Offline
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Advo, as far as I know it isn't required to have a property survey done everytime a property changes hands. And I think you do a whole lot of landowners a huge disrespect when you claim that $500 dollars is within most landowners budgets. You sound arrogant now, the type of snooty, nose in the air landowner that owns a nice 5 acre lot bordering the preserve and wonders why someone who struggles to pay their mortgage can't afford something that you think is trivial. Take your filed survey and stick it up your upper class nose.

I really do hope Kent isn't working with you on this, because I actually respect him, and he wouldn't be doing himself, or his cause any good by pairing up with the likes of you.

RR


Edited by RangerRob (08/30/10 06:24 PM)

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#54415 - 08/30/10 07:42 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Timbo Offline
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Not codified that you must do a property survey, but you must file a certified property description and figure which no legitimate licensed surveyors and engineers will do without doing an actual survey, unless they did the previous survey or have some other reason to truly trust the previous one.

TS
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#54420 - 08/31/10 04:06 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Timbo]
Mark Heyman Offline
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Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
RR: Aren't most surveys done when homes are sold? Isn't it necessary and standard practice to provide any lending institution with legal documentation of the location and size a property?

I don't think anything was directed at you, but it's not snobbery to beleive that spending what is most often less than 1% of the sales price of a home to protect both the lender and buyer is actually a good investment! So, shy of the well know cat food lady, a home buyer should and can afford to make that investment. It isn't going to make qualify or disqualify them form getting a mortgage, and it isn't going to make or break them.

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#54422 - 08/31/10 04:11 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chip]
Advocacy group Offline
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Originally Posted By: chip
AG are you saying that the MP does not have a filed survey of disputed land borders that are involved in court proceedings? I believe that to be highly unlikely.
I think it is incumbent on neighbors of the Preserve to also have surveys if they are concerned over property lines. My impression of what you have written is that you feel the Preserve is the only party that should have surveys, which does not make sense.


Chip,

The MPNA feels both parties should have complete filed surveys. The Mohonk Preserve does not have filed surveys for the property that they are claiming in the two current cases (we posted all filed maps of the Mohonk Preserve). Here are some reasons why the Mohonk Preserve should file a survey of ALL the lands they claim to own.

1. The Mohonk Preserve is the Plaintiff in every land dispute, it would prudent of the Mohonk Preserve to tell their neighbors and respective municipalities what they think they own.
2. A filed survey would allow their user base to identify the Mohonk Preserves boundaries, and allow Towns to see how much land is being "preserved".
3. A filed survey would put an end to all the "we own about 7000 acres" talk, How about an actual number of acres for a change?


MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54428 - 08/31/10 05:11 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Mark Heyman]
Advocacy group Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Heyman
RR: Aren


Well said Mark, and yes it is usually done at the time of purchase. We are surprised that a complete survey is not a requirement similar to title insurance (if you are getting a mortgage from a lending institution).

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54435 - 08/31/10 02:08 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chip Offline
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Thanks for the reply to my question, AG. I only know first hand of a couple of disputes involving the Preserve and neighbors and in both of these MP did provide surveys. I know of one in which the defendent never produced a survey, sorta like putting up the white flag. I don't know squat about real estate law but I agree that everyone should know what they actually own.

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#54449 - 09/01/10 12:25 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chip]
Advocacy group Offline
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Originally Posted By: chip
Thanks for the reply to my question, AG. I only know first hand of a couple of disputes involving the Preserve and neighbors and in both of these MP did provide surveys. I know of one in which the defendent never produced a survey, sorta like putting up the white flag. I don't know squat about real estate law but I agree that everyone should know what they actually own.



Chip,

Thanks for posting about the disputes you have heard about. The disputes that actually go to court are only a few of the many that have happened. The MPNA would like to know the individuals involved so we can put it in our database and possibly reach out. You can pm us if you don't want to put it on line. What towns were the disputes in? Thanks

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54452 - 09/01/10 02:30 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
I don't think I could provide even the names for you. Oldtimer's disease strikes again. Sorry.

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#54457 - 09/01/10 03:35 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chip]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Mark, I'll just speak for myself here, but if I had to suddenly hire a land surveyor right now it most definitely would break my bank. I guess it just goes to prove that I exist in a different socio-economic class as some of you do. I know for a fact that other modest homeowners in the area would have difficulty in paying for a survey as well.

My point is this, unless the title company finds some discrepancy or problem in the deed, the banks will not usuallty require a survey of the property, particularly if one already exists. For someone to claim that everyone bordering the Preserve should have a current survey done and file it just so some obscure landowners association can try to make a point......nonsense. Especially when said landowners are represented by someone who doesn't seem to understand that some people would have a hard time affording that.


I've said my peace. This whole issue does not deserve any more of my attention. The sooner it dissapears off this climbing website the better.

RR

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#54458 - 09/01/10 10:22 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Mark, I'll just speak for myself here, but if I had to suddenly hire a land surveyor right now it most definitely would break my bank. I guess it just goes to prove that I exist in a different socio-economic class as some of you do. I know for a fact that other modest homeowners in the area would have difficulty in paying for a survey as well.

My point is this, unless the title company finds some discrepancy or problem in the deed, the banks will not usuallty require a survey of the property, particularly if one already exists. For someone to claim that everyone bordering the Preserve should have a current survey done and file it just so some obscure landowners association can try to make a point......nonsense. Especially when said landowners are represented by someone who doesn't seem to understand that some people would have a hard time affording that.


I've said my peace. This whole issue does not deserve any more of my attention. The sooner it dissapears off this climbing website the better.

RR



Rob,

It is inaccurate to say "My point is this, unless the title company finds some discrepancy or problem in the deed, the banks will not usuallty require a survey of the property,". The fact is that in NYS, there is a survey exclusion in every title report. So if you were to have a boundary dispute and no survey, your title insurance would not pay for the litigation.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#56339 - 12/24/10 06:01 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Bueller....Bueller Mecus....
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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