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#54235 - 08/25/10 12:22 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Sorry, I'm not a technocrat. I know you can see all the old 15 minute series maps online somewhere, but you'll have to find the addy yourself. You're right, continuing the discussion is moot until we can both sit down and look at the same maps.

I'll ask you this, have you ever walked Clearwater from Table Rocks all the way out to Springtown? If you did, where exactly did you come out? On Diets property, or Church Cummunities?



Clearwater does not go to Springtown. The 15 minute Rosendale quadrant doesn't even name roads, it shows roads both public and private.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54238 - 08/25/10 12:36 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Okay, you win. Next topic?

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#54268 - 08/25/10 11:51 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Okay, you win. Next topic?


It just seems as though there is a lot of misinformation about who owns what, what is legal to climb vs what is off limits, is this road public or private etc...and people can only rely on hearsay because the Mohonk Preserve does not have a complete filed survey of their property.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#54275 - 08/26/10 01:39 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Go suck a turtle egg Pedestrian. We're engaging in civil discussion that isn't "code". You're allowed to banter all you want, and so are we. Don't read it if you don't like it.


Can't find any turtle eggs, you know where I can?

I believe the part where I bristled was all the insinuations about MPNA being just another illegal ATVer, and the subsequent back and forth. Way too "subtle" for me. Of course, I don't know why I care, given the MPNA/Kent/JGreene consortium's past tendency to lob personal attacks every which way.

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#54276 - 08/26/10 01:45 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Okay, you win. Next topic?


It just seems as though there is a lot of misinformation about who owns what, what is legal to climb vs what is off limits, is this road public or private etc...and people can only rely on hearsay because the Mohonk Preserve does not have a complete filed survey of their property.

MPNA


It also appears that the surrounding properties should also have have surveys. I can't imagine buying a parcel without one, but understand that many of these were inherited. The burden is not on only one owner (MP) to demarcate the ownership and it appears that this process of defining boundaries is what is getting everyone's panties in a bunch. It will get sorted over time, through the courts, and does not neccessarily paint one side as an evil aggressor. I appreciate that each side must defend themselves in any legal confrontation but rarely does this warrant the vitriol I have seen in these threads. Thank you for informing us of your position and concerns.

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#54277 - 08/26/10 02:22 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chip]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: chip
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Okay, you win. Next topic?


It just seems as though there is a lot of misinformation about who owns what, what is legal to climb vs what is off limits, is this road public or private etc...and people can only rely on hearsay because the Mohonk Preserve does not have a complete filed survey of their property.

MPNA


It also appears that the surrounding properties should also have have surveys. I can't imagine buying a parcel without one, but understand that many of these were inherited. The burden is not on only one owner (MP) to demarcate the ownership and it appears that this process of defining boundaries is what is getting everyone's panties in a bunch. It will get sorted over time, through the courts, and does not neccessarily paint one side as an evil aggressor. I appreciate that each side must defend themselves in any legal confrontation but rarely does this warrant the vitriol I have seen in these threads. Thank you for informing us of your position and concerns.



Chip,

It is the position of the MPNA that all land owners should not only have surveys of all their lands but filed surveys of all their lands. Unfortunately the Mohonk Preserve appears to have done neither. The Mohonk Preserve and their sister groups are busy suing neighbors, towns, and government organizations in the meantime.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#54280 - 08/26/10 03:16 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
MPNA, I understand and appreciate your concerns. I submit that none of these legal conflicts over property lines will move forward without surveys being filed and the legal precedent will then determine the findings. Eventually it will all get sorted out.
No one enjoys being sued for any reason and it is rightly said that the only true winners of any court decision are the lawyers. Both parties will lose money. At the least, feelings are hurt and nasty things can be said/threatened. It is, however, a more pleasant way to decide these things than organising your homies and attacking the neighbors.
That said, you absolutely need to bring a vocal presense to educate the public to concerns you have, which is cheaper than, and may help keep you out of, court.

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#54336 - 08/28/10 02:35 AM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: chip]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: chip
MPNA, I understand and appreciate your concerns. I submit that none of these legal conflicts over property lines will move forward without surveys being filed and the legal precedent will then determine the findings. Eventually it will all get sorted out.
No one enjoys being sued for any reason and it is rightly said that the only true winners of any court decision are the lawyers. Both parties will lose money. At the least, feelings are hurt and nasty things can be said/threatened. It is, however, a more pleasant way to decide these things than organising your homies and attacking the neighbors.
That said, you absolutely need to bring a vocal presense to educate the public to concerns you have, which is cheaper than, and may help keep you out of, court.



Chip,

The lawyers do not have to be the only winners. Climbers, MP neighbors and the Mohonk Preserve are all winners when both the Mohonk Preserve and all adjoining land owners surveys are filed. Filed surveys, open dialog and a
transparent agenda by the Mohonk Preserve will benefit everyone.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#54350 - 08/28/10 12:00 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Advo, do you have any idea how much money you're talking about in order for everyone to have a survey done of their lands? I'm guessing a lot of the landowners wouldn't be able to afford it. The only reason we got one when we bought out house is because I ran the rod for my surveyor, and he only charged me half price. Is the Advocacay Group in a position to help financially with this?

RR

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#54352 - 08/28/10 12:40 PM Re: Rosendale Waterworks Issue [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Advo, do you have any idea how much money you're talking about in order for everyone to have a survey done of their lands? I'm guessing a lot of the landowners wouldn't be able to afford it. The only reason we got one when we bought out house is because I ran the rod for my surveyor, and he only charged me half price. Is the Advocacay Group in a position to help financially with this?

RR



RR,

A survey for most land is not that expensive. We have been putting together a list of properties that we feel are potential targets and are in contact with landowners and surveyors. Most surveyors are fair and are actually quite a good value. For those with large land tracts there is also usually a large pocketbook to support a survey and legal costs so we act more as a consultant.

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
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