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#56099 - 11/29/10 02:13 PM New Paltz Indoor Climbing
Idaho Brad Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Ulster county
Hello all, I am interested in creating a indoor bouldering co-operative in New Paltz. Im looking for 10 key founding members who would be interested in undertaking such a project with me. I envision renting a space and building an adequate bouldering structure with-in the space. I hope to create a place for training, play, and socialization. I have been involved in similar co-ops before. Each member would receive their own key and free access.
More details to follow if and when more support for such an idea is created. Thanks for your interest!

Brad

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#56101 - 11/29/10 03:07 PM Re: New Paltz Indoor Climbing [Re: Idaho Brad]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Brad, I have recently been discussing the indoor climbing opportunities in NewPaltz. I've never been to The Inner Wall, but have heard from several people that they are not fans, citing low ceilings (for a climbing gym) and an atmosphere that is less than friendly. Again, I have no personal experience to back any of that up.
I have gone so far as to consider opening another facility in town but really don't think I would be involved with a gym that I didn't frequent myself.
Your concept is very interesting and by keeping it to bouldering only you eliminate many of the concerns about the structure that would otherwise be important. I have friends who will rotate between each others' basement walls, kinda like a rotating poker game. I quess that the hardest part would be for you to recruit others of similar ability and energy. Let us know how it goes.

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#56116 - 11/29/10 11:16 PM Re: New Paltz Indoor Climbing [Re: chip]
Idaho Brad Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Ulster county
Chip,

Thanks for the encouragement. It certainly seems as if there is a negative stigma associated with the inner wall space. Its a tough space to love, for many reasons- in all honesty it was probably outdated the year it opened. I have also heard about your friends that rotate their home-gyms. My current vision for the co-op is of a rented space in which co-op members pool together resources ($) to build an indoor bouldering space. The space and the routes would be suitable for all climbers and abilities. I hope to start with 10 people who can come to a unified vision.

Allow me to offer a theoretical scenario for how I envision this could work:

1) Myself, or another founding member locates a local space for rent/lease that meets our square footage demands, has toilet facilities, heating/cooling and parking. Of course the owner must approve of our intentions. The facility is to be much larger than a home gym, but smaller than a commercial facility.

2) We then construct our gym in the building with volunteered labor from co-op members, and building materials purchased from a co-op escrow account.

3) We then order holds from the same escrow type fund. Some monthly budget will hopefully be established for new holds and route setting costs/supplies.

4) A route management program would be implemented and overseen by co-op members- with an emphasis on variety of styles, difficulty, and angles.

5) Once the facility is built, and more interest is generated, Co-op membership grows from the original 10 key founding members to an unknown number. The cost of membership is yet to be determined, but with each new co-op member, the the cost to the initial 10 key founding members would be reduced.

6) With a facility, a monthly funded escrow account, a route management program, and volunteer co-op administrators, the gym stands as member owned for the life of this project.

Ok, so now for a theoretical financial managment example:

To get started, lets say we find a space that is available for $1000/month all inclusive of utilities. Now, each of the 10 founding members commit to $100 a month and the co-op is born. Construction funding could come from an initial investment from each key founding member as well. For example, $200 each up front= $1000 in building costs and holds to get started (these numbers are imaginary now, but i hope they will soon become real). Now, each founding member gets a key to the facility for all hours access. Guests, however, are only to be allowed during certain time-slots, and can offer a fixed "contribution" ($) that would be tracked with a paper trail to assure it finds its way into the co-op escrow account. Much of this accountability will rely on co-op member's integrity. More details on this will be created. What Im getting at though is this: If we say we have monthly operating costs of $1200 with $200 a month going to new holds purchases, and from our initial 10 members we grow to 40 members, the membership rate can hover at $30 a month for hopefully 24/7 personal access to what will be a rad boulding gym. This isn't even taking into account mandated "user donations" from visitors.

Of course this is all very simplified, but i wanted to present more of an example of how this could work, and hopefully get some folks excited about the prospect.

Please offer your feedback!

Brad

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#56118 - 11/30/10 12:01 AM Re: New Paltz Indoor Climbing [Re: Idaho Brad]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Sounds great, Brad.

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#56119 - 11/30/10 12:16 AM Re: New Paltz Indoor Climbing [Re: chip]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 847
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Insurance? Quite possibly the landlord would require a policy of some sort.
Good luck with the project. RC

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#56120 - 11/30/10 01:06 AM Re: New Paltz Indoor Climbing [Re: Rickster]
Idaho Brad Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Ulster county
Yes, insurance will definitely need to be addressed. It is possible it could be dealt with using the inevitable member/guest liability waiver...I am as of now unsure.

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#56124 - 11/30/10 02:50 AM Re: New Paltz Indoor Climbing [Re: Idaho Brad]
AOR Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 392
As someone who has dabbled with the idea of building an indoor climbing gym, may I suggest two things;

1. Write a cogent, comprehensive business plan. If you want people to get interested to "invest" in it, they'll want to see it. I wrote one for my project and I'll reiterate that it IS the first thing they want to see.

2. Investigate all your insurance options. Try Stratus Insurance Services, Inc. of American Fork, UT. 801-763-1375. If your project is a "for profit" gym, they'll want to know the projected gross revenue of the gym for the first 12 months of operation before they give you a quote.

Hope this helps...AOR

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#56128 - 11/30/10 01:01 PM Re: New Paltz Indoor Climbing [Re: AOR]
Idaho Brad Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Ulster county
AOR,

I appreciate your feedback. I am familiar with business plans and would be glad to write one, but I am unsure it will be needed. I envision this project as a non-profit co-op; think of it as a type of "bouldering clubhouse" if you'd like. Again, I could write a business plan, but currently I am not seeking business investors and/or lenders. I am seeking founding members of a non-profit bouldering gym. Do you still a cogent, comprehensive business plan would be needed?

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#56130 - 11/30/10 01:36 PM Re: New Paltz Indoor Climbing [Re: Idaho Brad]
charliebutters Offline
addict

Registered: 11/11/01
Posts: 510
Loc: accord
Just went to the inner walls site to check on hours etc then found a link to their facebook page where this is written and dated 11/17,

"The Inner Wall closed due to a breakdown in negotiations of a sale that was pending for many months. While the business is no longer for sale, the landlord is seeking a new tenant who is interested in leasing the existing space as a new climbing gym. Please contact me via private msg if you are interested. Do spread th...e word in the climbing community to let others know of this opportunity. Thanks, Cari Laughlin"



























































Edited by charliebutters (11/30/10 10:16 PM)

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#56141 - 12/01/10 01:58 AM Re: New Paltz Indoor Climbing [Re: Idaho Brad]
AOR Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 392
Originally Posted By: Idaho Brad
AOR,

I appreciate your feedback. I am familiar with business plans and would be glad to write one, but I am unsure it will be needed. I envision this project as a non-profit co-op; think of it as a type of "bouldering clubhouse" if you'd like. Again, I could write a business plan, but currently I am not seeking business investors and/or lenders. I am seeking founding members of a non-profit bouldering gym. Do you still a cogent, comprehensive business plan would be needed?



As per your reply to Chip above, I think some type of business plan would definitely be in order so any founding member can know exactly what the project's original intent is to be. I'm not saying that it's just being built on a "wing and a prayer", but you're going to need something in writing. Especially if folks are going to be putting down cold, hard cash for the project. The written plan may not have to be that involved, but it should exist.

Then, once you start asking prospective members for membership fees, you're heading into liability territory. All I'm saying is that for it to be insured (and, it's going to have to be if you're charging membership fees), then, the insurance company is absolutely going to want to see something in writing. If not for anything else, what are they insuring? The first time someone falls and sustains a substantial injury, a signed liability waiver may not hold much water. Any attorney worth his or her weight could get around that without any problem.

And, finally...you're talking about people "having a key" and coming and going at their own leisure? I could talk about the liability issues with regards to that ad nauseum.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade Brad. Just giving you some food for thought.

Best of luck.

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