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#5620 - 09/06/02 03:50 PM Re: Format with Netscape Navigator [Re: MurphysLaw]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
It is, for us. As Cori's pointed out, it's different in the corporate world; there are companies that standardized on Netscape 4 ages ago; some of these work for our customers, so we have to deal.

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#5621 - 09/06/02 04:13 PM Re: Format with Netscape Navigator [Re: MurphysLaw]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
I can't imagine it is economically viable/feasible for anybody to expend time and resources towards something that affects 1% or less of the user population.

As of July 2002, US Market share
BMW- 1.5%
Mercedes- 1.2%
Subaru- 1.0%
Volvo- 0.6%
Audi- 0.5%, Saab 0.3%, and Porsche 0.1%. (skipped a few, full list here .)

Should these automakers pull their vehicles out of the US market? What would the gunks be without a lot full of Subarus?

But my point was, if you write web pages for the 1%, the basic web browser with no capabilities, write web pages with basic HTML and CGI, the site will still run fine on the other 99%, and you don't alienate anyone.
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#5622 - 09/06/02 04:34 PM Re: Format with Netscape Navigator [Re: quanto_the_mad]
MurphysLaw Offline
gumby

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2308
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
Good points all. BUT...

I'd guess YUGO (are they even still in business) controls less than 1% of the market share too.

You are suggesting that the website be set up in a "YUGO-like" (stripped down and basic) format, even though the vast majority of users can use and appreciate the "BMW/Mercedes-like" new features, which I'm sure will attract even more users, and more importantly for those to whom this really matters (Evan, et al), advertisers - it IS a for-profit venture, after all)

ps - I did say I don't know what I'm talking about here
I just know that if I were Evan, I wouldn't bother with (or at least prioritize) problems that affect so small a user group.
Maybe he and his buddies will get around to it - for those user's sakes, I hope so.
I just wouldn't be holding my breath.
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"Flailing?" "Flail on!"

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#5623 - 09/06/02 04:46 PM Re: Format with Netscape Navigator [Re: MurphysLaw]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
You're right, you don't know what you're talking about. (tease, tease)

Netscape 6/7 is perfectly capable of displaying the same format as IE6... *if* you actually bother to do it in a standards-conformant manner.

It's not a question of the masses suffering for the sake of the few... both can be satisfied if only you bother to read up on what is the portable way to do something and do it that way from the beginning. Then you don't have to go back and port things.. it's not a huge investment.

(This is really one of my hot buttons. If people continue to roll over and play dead purely out of laziness, Microsoft wins. Netscape 6/7 (which is the only portable, open, runs-on-any-platform-anywhere, standards conformant browser.. take that microsoft) really is just as advanced as IE6, so it shouldn't be that much effort to do things the *right* way.)

--ped "anal web dev geek" Xing

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#5624 - 09/06/02 05:02 PM Re: Format with Netscape Navigator [Re: MurphysLaw]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn
ML, yes, you're right. Along with Chazman was saying, my company's website is pure glitz. Incredible the stuff they're running, a web designer's wet dream. Impress the competition. Impress the clients. Impress the prospective hires. Bragging rights for the higher ups.

Does gunks.com need (just as an example) a 8MB Flash animation saying how great a site it is and what a service it provides for visitors? Or do the visitors already know that? Does it really need all the bells and whistles to sell itself to users or advertisers?

Two years ago Burton.com had a slick flash animation on the opening screen. Looked cool, pita to navigate through. It's gone now, back to a simpler navigation. Those visiting the site already knew the value of the site, just wanted to get to the information they were looking for without getting slowed down by a clumsy interface.

A slick, clean interface, that's what I'm asking for. And lunch, if someone wants to buy me lunch that'd be cool too.
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#5625 - 09/06/02 05:05 PM Re: Format with Netscape Navigator [Re: MurphysLaw]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
I can't imagine it is economically viable/feasible for anybody to expend time and resources towards something that affects 1% or less of the user population.

Go back and read the statistics again. You're talking about 10%, not 1%, If you consider all non-microsoft products together. The Beast does not own 99% of the market... yet. But they will if people like you have their way

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#5626 - 09/06/02 05:33 PM Re: Format with Netscape Navigator [Re: pedestrian]
MurphysLaw Offline
gumby

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 2308
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
Ah, the beloved "quote taken out of context" response.

In my original post, I was specifically referring to options #5 and below, each of which (not collectively) are about 1%, or significantly less. Dead horse sufficiently beaten.

OK, the Beast is 'only' 90% of the market.
(for better, or worse )
Wouldn't you, as a programmer/web site developer/tech geek want to address that large user group first, and then (maybe) get to all the other smaller ones?
(but, I doubt it's at the top of their "to do list")
That was (and is) pretty much my only point.

Coming from somebody who doesn't know what he's talking about.
(and only slightly more about climbing )

PS - if any/all of these other products are so much better than those from the "Evil Empire" - why aren't they more popular? (more than 10% total market share)
Normally, "if you build a better mousetrap, the world will beat a path to your door."





Edited by MurphysLaw (09/06/02 05:40 PM)
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"Flailing?" "Flail on!"

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#5627 - 09/06/02 05:36 PM Re: Format with Netscape Navigator [Re: MurphysLaw]
d-elvis Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/26/00
Posts: 3650
Loc: Central PA
You can't fight the gates machine, MS is the real world ruler - give up now while you still can and join us - OR YOU WILL BE DESTROYED!!
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"Marriage Survivor"

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#5628 - 09/06/02 05:53 PM Re: Format with Netscape Navigator [Re: MurphysLaw]
quanto_the_mad Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 2628
Loc: brooklyn

PS - if any/all of these other products are so much better than those from the "Evil Empire" - why aren't they more popular?


Check this out, written by Neal Stephenson about computers and OSes. Great essay. At least read the "MGBs, Tanks, and Batmobiles", that will give you a general understanding, the rest explains in very good detail.
In the Beginning Was The Command Line
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#5629 - 09/06/02 07:42 PM Re: Format with Netscape Navigator [Re: quanto_the_mad]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The newest code will be created on FreeBSD using Katie and viewed in Konquerer, thus eliminating any worries of NS's ability to view it. Because if Konquerer can, anything can.

Long Live FreeBSD and death to Ms!

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