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#56538 - 01/17/11 07:45 PM Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks
phlan Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2778
Loc: Gardiner, NY

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#56541 - 01/17/11 10:44 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: phlan]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards

From the linked article:
Quote:
The area is bounded by private land and respect for these
boundaries is essential if we are to enjoy the privilege of climbing here, as everywhere, when private residences are so close.


Talk is cheap.

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#56546 - 01/18/11 02:54 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: Kent]
phlan Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2778
Loc: Gardiner, NY
it certainly is, my friend, including your very constructive comment you have made.
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Support Your Local Farmer!

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#56547 - 01/18/11 03:30 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: phlan]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Hi Chris,

Your sarcasm might make sense if you or the GCC had done something constructive to promote good relationships between the climbing community and private landowners with climbable cliff face, but you haven't.

Do I have to point out the dereliction of the the GCC again? Prior to the cliff closure in the Nears, no one from the GCC approached any private landowner in the Nears, Bayards or at Millbrook. After the Nears closure, you contacted that one landowner but it was, of course, too late.

Astonishingly, you and your fellow board members at the GCC have yet to contact any other private landowner at the aforementioned three cliffs.

Why?

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#56548 - 01/18/11 03:50 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: Kent]
phlan Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2778
Loc: Gardiner, NY
do you have anything of substance to contribute to the topic that I originally posted, Kent?

if not, you can please take your rants elsewhere. you are a sorry, bitter pathetic old man. we are proud of our accomplishments and have done nothing but good for our community. we have received accolades and awards for our work. what good have you contributed to the community, Dude? posts like these really show your true colors.

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#56549 - 01/18/11 03:58 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: phlan]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Chris,

The link in your original post contains public relations spin, which deserves to be challenged.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Edited to add:

And really Chris, as the chair of the GCC, the local organization supposedly promoting climbing access, and the local representative of the Access Fund, you should be able to engage in a public dialog without having a vitriolic meltdown.


Edited by Kent (01/18/11 04:13 PM)

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#56552 - 01/18/11 06:03 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: Kent]
phlan Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2778
Loc: Gardiner, NY
there is no spin that I can see. your caustic remark, was not appropriate and not appreciated. it is typical of your inane and small minded attacks which obviously are the result of you sitting around with time on your hands and nothing better to do.

and, since you bring it up, I am no longer chair of the GCC. we have some new blood taking over, and they will do an excellent job of continuing the organization's tradition of service. I am no longer the AF representative, the site is not updated.

I'm sure that you will continue jeering from the sidelines, but know that has never distracted the GCC from our mission.

I posted this thread with the link because it is the result of a lot of personal time and hard work for me and our other members over the last 8 years, and it is with a good sense of closure that I do so.

while I'm at this I also want to thank everyone who has helped us with this project over the last 8 years, from Pat McDonough Town of Rosendale Town Board, to Rich Gottlieb of Rock and Snow, many many local climbers and boulderers, Open Space Institute and the Mohonk Preserve.

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#56553 - 01/18/11 09:32 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: phlan]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Originally Posted By: phlan
there is no spin that I can see. your caustic remark, was not appropriate and not appreciated. it is typical of your inane and small minded attacks which obviously are the result of you sitting around with time on your hands and nothing better to do.

First, if you don't want your posts or your opinions to be challenged, don't post them on an open discussion forum. That you don't see spin reflects you're biased perspective. Another perspective might hold there is a lot of spin in the line I quoted up-thread, considering the number of climbers who feel as though they are entitled to climb on private land, and how little the GCC and The Access Fund have done to foster a respectful relationship between climbers and private landowners.

Originally Posted By: phlan
and, since you bring it up, I am no longer chair of the GCC. we have some new blood taking over, and they will do an excellent job of continuing the organization's tradition of service. I am no longer the AF representative, the site is not updated.

That you have stepped down from being chair, just one year into your current two-year term, is news. Why isn't this posted anywhere? Who is the new chair? Why is the climbing community so often kept in the dark by the organization that represents them? Regarding traditions, hopefully any new blood on the board won't continue the tradition of not speaking with landowners in the Nears, Bayards, and at Millbrook.

Originally Posted By: phlan
I'm sure that you will continue jeering from the sidelines, but know that has never distracted the GCC from our mission.

It's interesting that you consider valid questions and commentary jeers. For example, just what is the GCC's Mission? I've asked previously how an organization started by trad climbers for trad climbing access, specifically Skytop access, has become about raising money to give to the Preserve so they can afford to manage a bouldering area. Bouldering seems great, but it also seems as though the GCC mission has crept a great deal since its inception.

Originally Posted By: phlan
I posted this thread with the link because it is the result of a lot of personal time and hard work for me and our other members over the last 8 years, and it is with a good sense of closure that I do so.

That's great Chris but it's unfortunate however, for all involved, that a lasting part of your legacy is also a broken relationship between some private landowners and the Mohonk Preserve, including some climbers. A broken relationship that has resulted in the closure of five pieces of land so far, resulting in 1700' of the Millbrook Ridge Trail being rerouted off private land, and 900' of climbable cliff face being closed to climbing, including the chunk in the Nears.

Lastly Chris, if you want to discus this or anything else in a respectful manner, I'm all for it. You're personal attacks, however, say much more about you than they do me, and also they only detract from the points you are trying to make.

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#56557 - 01/19/11 02:44 AM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: Kent]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
"The area is bounded by private land and respect for these
boundaries is essential if we are to enjoy the privilege of climbing here, as everywhere, when private residences are so close."

There has already been a police report filed for repeated trespass violations....

Thanks,MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#56565 - 01/19/11 06:10 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: Advocacy group]
phlan Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 2778
Loc: Gardiner, NY
nice. I am happy to personally take the blame for every single thing that has gone wrong in the Gunks for the last 10 years. excellent awesome post there. none of this surprises me, of course... : )
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Support Your Local Farmer!

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#56566 - 01/19/11 06:55 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: Advocacy group]
AdvocacyFail Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 3
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group


There has already been a police report filed for repeated trespass violations....

Thanks,MPNA


Hey Chris U, I'm sure the police are way too busy enforcing your brand new restraining order to deal with that. How many is that now? And when is the trial again? I was thinking of getting a crew together and renting a van. We can get together and have beers and laugh about it when its done, however big the fine is.

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#56567 - 01/19/11 07:01 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: phlan]
yar Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 10
Dear kent:
If you dont approve of the GCC either join and have a say, or form your own damn group. You clearly have PLENTY of time on your hands. How about doing something useful with it? You think you are being productive stirring the pot and singling people out on a lame message board that the majority of gunks climbers will never read?

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#56569 - 01/19/11 11:13 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: phlan]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Originally Posted By: phlan
nice. I am happy to personally take the blame for every single thing that has gone wrong in the Gunks for the last 10 years. excellent awesome post there. none of this surprises me, of course... : )


As GCC Chair you were deeply disrespectful of landowners and therefore share responsibility for land closures that were a response to that disrespect.

Your post here on gunks.com about how you supported the Gardiner zoning law because it was coercive and that "this is one of the ways these things are done", along with your post on the GCC FB page to "Access all areas" both had a direct impact on the decision of landowners to close their land.

Additionally, as GCC Chair, your steadfast refusal, for years, to talk with any private landowners in the Nears, Bayards, or at Millbrook was another substantive sign of disrespect.

As a consequence of your words and inaction, legal climbing access has been lost in a portion of the Nears and Bayards and will probably be lost for years to come. And additional closures may yet come to pass.



Edited by Kent (01/19/11 11:31 PM)
Edit Reason: clarity

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#56570 - 01/19/11 11:29 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: yar]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Originally Posted By: yar
Dear kent:
If you dont approve of the GCC either join and have a say, or form your own damn group. You clearly have PLENTY of time on your hands. How about doing something useful with it? You think you are being productive stirring the pot and singling people out on a lame message board that the majority of gunks climbers will never read?


YAR, one can't join the GCC as they no longer have a membership model. If they had a membership model, one that relied on the payment of annual dues from happy members, it's likely they would have behaved much differently over the last few years.

As for time spent stirring the pot, I write here, occasionally on other discussion boards, and in the local newspaper. I also speak frequently with many neighbors, climbers, and members of the Gardiner Town Board. The ideas I articulate: the burden of protecting the ridge should be shared, respect for private property fosters our sense of community, and the Mohonk Preserve's adversarial land acquisition tactics degrade our sense of community, have all gained considerable traction over the years.

So it's worth the little time it takes.

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#56574 - 01/20/11 06:01 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: Kent]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Just for the record the GCCs mission statement is clearly stated in the links provided. Considering how popular bouldering has become, it's interest and support does not seem inconsistent to me.


"Our Mission

The Gunks Climbers Coalition, established in the fall of 2002, is an advocacy group dedicated to creating and maintaining sustainable opportunities for responsible climbing along the Shawangunk Ridge and surrounding areas."

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#56578 - 01/22/11 10:39 PM Re: Access Fund e-news Re.: Waterworks [Re: phlan]
TerrieM Online   content
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 426
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Oh for F***'s sake. The link SPECIFICALLY says what systems are in place to do the best possible to respect neighboring boundaries. It SPECIFICALLY asks those going out there to respect the boundaries. And someone is saying that's not good enough? What should the GCC be doing? Installing motion-sensor cameras?

That "the GCC didn't contact" someone IN THE PAST has NOTHING to do with this announcement.



That said - If my van gets me back east in spring and still runs once I get there...I will definitely go the the WWorks.

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