>AOL is the enemy because they do nothing but purposely not go by the standards as to empower their own horrid product.

I thought that was Microsoft?

Minor observation - many of the "Features" now have virtually the same name as Climbing Forum sections (Routes, Gear, Trip Reports) This is confusing, and may be behind some of the problems with the pull-down vs. the sidebar selections.

Sad but true, the discussion board is a pre-packed piece of software which we have been purchasing since day one. The product is UBB.Threads and please also make your comments (as they are good) to their forums. This way they can make software better equipped to the user, as we are also trying to do

UBB Threads

Well I've taken time out of my day to view the site on Netscape (NS) 4.7. And yes, I'm to sorry its horrible. Truly I feel your pain, but send most of your anger to NS for creating a product that DOESN'T FOLLOW standards. But now back to the topic at hand.

I will begin redoing the site tonight for users that aren't viewing the site right. The upper drop down menus will be dropped and the left hand menus will be open 24/7. Perhaps when I get some more time I'll even give the user an option as to which they'd prefer.

I would now like to state something about the dual menu system (drop down and side menu). They exist and mimic each other for ease of use. View the site in a browser such as IE 6.0 (blah blah MS blah blah) and it looks and works wonderfully.

And finally, for all the users on any platform who have the ability to update their browsers, IE to 6.0 and NS to 7.0, PLEASE DO SO. The browser will enhance your experience on this site and many more.

First off, thanks for even having this forum to discuss the changes, and thanks too for asking for input and responding. It isn't easy balancing all the things you have to do with this site!

Here is some additional feedback on the interface (I used to do human interface design professionally, so its an obsession. )



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The upper drop down menus will be dropped and the left hand menus will be open 24/7.
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Great! Try and get it so you can jump just about anywere from the first page. It is challenging, especially so you don't overwhelm the user with too many choices (you're probably familiar with the 7 +/-2 rule--people can only keep 5-7 things in short term memory, so choices have to be limited to 5-7, but you can get around it by "chunking" items like sub menus, etc.).

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Perhaps when I get some more time I'll even give the user an option as to which they'd prefer.
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You could, I guess, but I think if you get a design that works, you won't need to have that option--save your work for other stuff!

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I would now like to state something about the dual menu system (drop down and side menu). They exist and mimic each other for ease of use.
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I can understand that. However, human interface studies (video taping people using dual menu systems) show that that type of redundant navigation usually confuses people and ends up slowing them down since cognitive loads (7 +/- 2, for example) go way up. In other words, it is actually NOT easier to use. People THINK it is, but they aren't timing themselves (it pretty amazing to see this in action!). I'd bet you could drop the dual menus with enough work on navigation.

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View the site in a browser such as IE 6.0 (blah blah MS blah blah) and it looks and works wonderfully.
And finally, for all the users on any platform who have the ability to update their browsers, IE to 6.0 and NS to 7.0, PLEASE DO SO. The browser will enhance your experience on this site and many more.
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Java, cascading style sheets, etc., are nice an all, but a website like this should work on ANY browser. How about lynx?

It is a really challenge (I feel your pain!) to do it, but try stripping the site down to the bare essentials--links and straight up html code. It will make your job easier, and allow more people (like AOL users) to enjoy the site. I've found in some of my design jobs I can elimitate a lot of "extra" stuff with enough work--and have the advantage of cleaner code and a more inclusive site. You could always go to a fully dynamic site that detects the user's browser and platform and then serves them a page designed for that browser. When that works, it is fantastic--but is a LOT of work.

Keep up the good work! Great job so far.

howdy,
the macintosh version remains, um, interesting. I ended up just typing in the long form address to access the main page of the discussion after three frustrating minutes. None of the new features work at all in Mac 9.2 with Explorer 5.x

i am often not in front of a high speed connection. Furthermore, i look at the sign at school, in internet cafes all over the states/europe/middle east, and on three different computers at home. The first days of the new site were very fast. However, it is really loading like a dog since then. I thought it might have been my connection while i was in turkey, but here in new york, the speed is well down as well. Does anybody else share this? I am afraid that updating all the browsers on all the computers i work with is simply not an option.

ps: i have to refresh EVERY single time now: it loads, goes blank, and then i have to refresh to where i was before...