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#60480 - 09/24/11 08:49 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: retroscree]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2467
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Retro is right; folks used to prusik thousands of feet. Beckey showing how its done on the East Face of Snowpatch Spire, 1959.



Being efficient is mostly a matter of knowing how to set up the right length slings.

I think the real issue in all this is the stupid "guide" plates. First they pull you off and then they lock up and can't be released. I hate those things.

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#60482 - 09/25/11 02:42 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: retroscree]
Welle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 213
Loc: Western Slope
Originally Posted By: Mark Heyman
Do you carry two of them? Id recommend a knot variation like the Klemheist before I started carrying mechanical devices heavier than a TiBloc.

You only need 1 and still use a cord/sling for the second one. Now lighter Gri Gri 2 are actually pretty nice to carry on multi-pitch climbs (not in the mountains of course, but at a crag).

Originally Posted By: retroscree

Not true at all. They are quite effective and workable, and super light to carry. Recall the number of big walls that were done with prusiks on the FA.

Have you prusiked on a wet rope in a rain or on iced up rope?

Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc

Being efficient is mostly a matter of knowing how to set up the right length slings.

True. I also find that I have to readjust the number of wraps on my autoblock (for rappels) depending on how skinny/fat the rope is (I'm used to skinny so I tend to overwrap) I suspect that would be the case for ascending too, then you'll have to readjust the length of the foot sling too, no?

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#60483 - 09/25/11 04:11 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: Welle]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: Welle
Originally Posted By: retroscree

Not true at all. They are quite effective and workable, and super light to carry. Recall the number of big walls that were done with prusiks on the FA.

Have you prusiked on a wet rope in a rain or on iced up rope?

Wet, yes - an extra wrap can make them work if they're slipping. Iced up? No - hell, that can be just as problematic with Jumars or other mechanical ascenders, too.

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#60484 - 09/25/11 04:43 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: retroscree]
wonderwoman Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 46
I would image that neither of those devices are likely to work on 9mm double ropes, which is what I normally use and have had to ascend. And come to think of it, I don't use a prusik. I use a klemheist, which is even harder to spell.

So, I 'klemheisted' after I got pulled off the second pitch of a climb last weekend. grin

I'm inventing my own climbing terminology as we go along.


Edited by wonderwoman (09/25/11 04:44 PM)

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#60485 - 09/25/11 09:42 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: wonderwoman]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2467
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
I think the key to effective improvised prusiking is to have whatever is hitched to your harness able to move up instantly and grab. So on the harness I'd use a gri-gri (but this won't work for prusiking up rappel ropes), one of the the %$#@&ing guide plates I just hated on above, or, my favorite, the misnamed Garda hitch, better-named the alpine clutch, fabricated from a pair of carabiners.

Hanging from your harness, you can comfortably futz with whatever knot you are using for the foot loop and move it up. As you step up, you haul rope through whatever you are using as a clutch and you are instantly stable and hands-free at your next position.

To use this system with the Garda, you have to have two nice-sized lockers, which almost everyone has on them nowadays, a prusik knot cord, which most climbers also have for a rappel backup, and enough slingage (say three over-the-shoulder runners) to arrange a foot loop. This last item can be the rub; it isn't unusual to see a second starting up a pitch without anything that could be used as a foot loop. Of course, if the party is using cordelettes, there is no problem.

In almost everyone's hands, I find guide plates provide a very inferior belay for seconds who want to climb the pitch without being pulled, not to mention the fact that the plates encourage belayer inattention. (Eat your lunch while belaying! Change clothes! Zone out until your second takes a legitimate leader fall from all the slack you've left!) Unlocking a guide plate when the second is hanging free can be very difficult. In some cases, if the plate is pulled against the rock in certain ways, its ability to tilt may be blocked off and unlocking will not be possible, and then a full-on belay escape is the only option for lowering.

The devices are a solution to a problem that didn't exist. But more and more climbers are learning outdoor climbing while belayed by these plates, and so don't even know what a good belay is like. They expect to end up on tension if they step down, and accept the idea that if they have to reverse lateral or diagonal moves, they are likely to be pulled off.

Wonderwoman, if you are going to prusik up double ropes after a belayed fall, it makes more sense to prusik on just one strand and be belayed with the other strand. That way you don't have to tie back-up knots in the rope to protect yourself in case the prusiking system fails in some way.

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#60486 - 09/26/11 12:07 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: rg@ofmc]
wonderwoman Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 46
Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
Wonderwoman, if you are going to prusik up double ropes after a belayed fall, it makes more sense to prusik on just one strand and be belayed with the other strand. That way you don't have to tie back-up knots in the rope to protect yourself in case the prusiking system fails in some way.


That's exactly what I did. I ascended the rope that was clipped into the next piece of gear, while my belayer took up on the other rope. I didn't have to go far to get back on the rock, thank god. But there have been instances where I've had to prusik for longer than I would have liked. It's tiring. It wouldn't make any sense to try to ascend both ropes, especially when they were going in different directions. Unfortunately, I am not a prusik n00b.

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#61236 - 11/07/11 06:05 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: jakedatc]
wonderwoman Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 46
Originally Posted By: jakedatc
Originally Posted By: wonderwoman
Maybe he is suggesting threading the quicklink so that it can be included in the anchor for the purpose of rappelling? But I've never seen anybody rappel from there.


Yep, Had to rap off since my partner could not pull the P1 crux roof and then fell into space and had to be lowered to the ground.

There is a mid point anchor since a 60m won't make it to the ground also. It had one newer piece of webbing on it though.


About that mid point anchor. Apparently the quick link won't do you any good anymore:
http://www.gunks.com/home/bonnies-roof-rappel-unsafe/#comments

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#61239 - 11/07/11 10:36 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: wonderwoman]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3764
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Apparently, the Erect Direction hanging belay anchor has reappeared. Convenience anchors are like unwanted fire rings, they just keep getting rebuilt, no matter how many times you break em down.

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#61241 - 11/08/11 04:42 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: RangerRob]
Lucander Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 224
Loc: Stone Ridge, NY
I felt pretty damn happy to clip that anchor a few years ago...

On a related note, somebody fixed up the Balrog anchor: one nice piece of unobtrusive black webbing wrapped neatly around the tree, backed up with the same rusty ass nut a few feet behind and built into the system. Only one piece of nylon on the system, bring a back-up if it spooks you.

There's a useless runner on the GT above Arch, would have cut it but we were in a rush. Ties off a small leaning tree and encourages a ridiculous rappel when a chain station is less than 30" right.

Jean could use a 1-up on webbing. I had no tubular with me, but it would certainly be nice to have something from this millennium up there.

DL

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#61389 - 11/14/11 10:35 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: Lucander]
Lucander Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 224
Loc: Stone Ridge, NY
Broken Sling: The fixed mank up on p. 1 is looking pretty weird. A few of the nuts are just hanging there for the taking, bring a knife to cut them from the old webbing. Don't know who would use this thing, it's too high for the obvious belay stance. Maybe for doing the Direct finish?

D. Lucander

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