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#57546 - 05/19/11 04:37 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: Lucander]
tradjunkie Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 365
Thanks Dave. Perhaps then better to rename the thread: Anchor Updates and Status Reports.

'wish lists' will bring in the element of, well, what people want, which is far messier.

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#57555 - 05/19/11 02:32 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: rg@ofmc]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Sorry, Dave, just one more comment, and that comment is aimed at bringing the focus back down to the level of individual anchors ....

Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
Originally Posted By: Jeff D.
I can control my actions, and you can control yours, but without an effort to help others make better decisions our collective experience suffers.


This is true enough as far as it goes, but your "solution" was to blame the guidebook. Perhaps Julie will start a MP section entitled Getting Down from the Trapps?


When I subdivided the Trapps section on MP, one of the goals was to use each new Area page to give an overview of descent options - to help others make better decisions. It sounds like at least Jeff found that useful.

We cannot solve the global problem(s), there is no such thing as consensus, and wringing hands about "kids these days" ain't gonna help, either.

All's I'm saying is: if you're going to chop Betty's or Baby's anchor in the name of greater good - consider DOING something (different!) to communicate options to folks as they arrive at a naked tree. Not on an all-anchors-everywhere basis, but on an as-needed basis. Like, at the Baby tree. Especially if you happen to have access to a laminating machine ....

Someone wiser than me once said: the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

Now, back to individual anchors, I hope I'll get to Ursula this weekend. What's the new descent from Harvest Moon, now?

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#57560 - 05/19/11 05:13 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: Julie]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Hahaha---everyone is going to want a last word! Here are my parting comments, after which I'm removing myself from this thread as an obviously subversive influence.

(1) I tried to convince Evan to create a spreadsheet-style database of anchors and fixed pro status several years ago. He never did anything with it. Maybe the answer is to host it somewhere else like MP, where Julie is actively involved in providing good information.

(2) I seriously doubt a narrative format like this can or should be kept "on topic." As for the political analogy, we can't expect to solve our political problems by just doing things without discussing the merits and drawbacks of the actions and the same is true for anchors.

(3) Julie's point about the need for better descent information if anchors are eliminated makes sense, but decorating trees and other former anchor locations with mini route cards directing folks to better options doesn't seem to me like the way to go. I have a few ideas but this is apparently not the place for such discussions.

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#57561 - 05/19/11 05:23 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: rg@ofmc]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 710
Loc: NYC
Kind of funny to see an actual debate of interest on a gunks.com thread-- and then the thread police show up to shut it down! It wasn't even really off-topic imho, rather a natural evolution of the topic.

What a waste.
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#57562 - 05/19/11 05:46 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: SethG]
Welle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 213
Loc: Western Slope
ditto. thread branch out?

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#57565 - 05/19/11 07:51 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: Julie]
Lucander Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 227
Loc: Stone Ridge, NY
Originally Posted By: Julie

Now, back to individual anchors, I hope I'll get to Ursula this weekend. What's the new descent from Harvest Moon, now?


Get off by doing it the old eco-conscious way like Sir Goldstone by down climbing the low fifth-classish gully to the left of the block or by belaying up top and rapping the Hang Ten tree. This tree is remarkable similar to the Harvest Moon tree - it's not going to last a while.

I don't say this often, but the top of the block is a good spot for a bolted anchor for use descending Hang Ten, Harvest Moon and (if anyone does it) Mincer.

D. Lucander

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#57582 - 05/20/11 11:52 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: Lucander]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
I would agree dave. If Mainline has a bolted anchor, then surely Harvest Moon, Hang Ten, etc could use one.

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#57583 - 05/21/11 12:57 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: RangerRob]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Mainline anchor...worst travesty in Gunks bolting program...must...keep...promise...to...shut up...arrrRRRGH!

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#57585 - 05/21/11 01:35 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: rg@ofmc]
schwortz Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 308
that is a pretty lame spot for a bolted anchor.

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#57597 - 05/22/11 01:07 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: schwortz]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Indeed. If one of the premises of the bolted anchor program is to reduce damage to the trees at the tops of climbs, this one fails miserably. They put bolts in next to a perfect gear anchor, and did not put bolts in on top, causing people who want to rap to still have to do it off the tree!


DUHHH!!!


Back onto the topic. I noticed yesterday that people are using the shrub/tree down and to the right of the last pitch of Shockley's, and to the left of the last pitch belay for Grim Ace Face. While the anchor material looked reasonable, the whole set up seems a little sketch to me. bad position, scrawny tree, etc. The only reason I can see that thing being there is for people bailing off of Grim Ace Face and not wanting to traverse over to the top of Shockley's or Shockley's without.

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