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#59464 - 08/04/11 02:47 AM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: RangerRob]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey
REDIRECTIONALISM DIRECT 5.12+ R July 16, 2011 Joshua Perry & Don Perry. Start 45 right of New Frontier.

FIRST PITCH Climb up past two separated right facing corners to an overhang. Traverse right under overhang to another right facing corner over the roof. Climb through right facing corner to the base of a ramp. Climb up a ramp left (this ramp is called The White Meat Cleaver) to its top and a small ledge.

SECOND PITCH Traverse right a few feet and up to the roof at a notch directly over the Meat Cleaver. Climb upwards and then left (this is the point where Redirectionalism goes direct) to around the left side of a wide black streak into overhangs above and protection. Move back down to belay on a narrow ledge to the left.

THIRD PITCH At the overhangs, climb straight up over small roofs directly over the top of the left side of the Meat-Cleaver, at the same time while climbing left around a large white bulge and up to roof. Under the roof traverse right past a small hole 5' to turn roof directly over center of Meat-Cleaver, which is at the same time under a horizontal crack under the next roof at its widest opening. The aforementioned roof is over and a part of the regular route. Turn narrow roof and the wider roof above on the regular route and climb up to the last roof.. Belay 14' down and to the right.

FOURTH PITCH Use under clings on the last roof to turn roof just under a right facing corner over the roof. Climb up to top.

Variation 1. 5.13 + R Joshua Perry & Donald Perry August 2, 2011. Between the Meleski, Gruenberg Variation and the forth pitch of Redirectionalism Direct, climb up into short right facing corners in the overhang to the top. Variation 1 has a runout out and over the roof on no protection on 5.13+ moves. We have already climbed it with aid at A4, however we are now working to free this variation and we see no reason for it to continue named as an aide climb.

Note. This route is without question among the very best and most complex and troubling routes in the Shawgunks. This climb is not an aid route, if this climb is aided some of the holds will break off.


photo deleted

Redirectionalism Direct 5.12+ R Joshua Perry & Donald Perry 7.16.11



Edited by Mike Rawdon (03/20/12 12:32 AM)
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The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#59465 - 08/04/11 02:49 AM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey
We down graided from X to R. If you know what your doing it is an R. If you don't know what your doing it's an X
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#59467 - 08/04/11 09:48 AM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: donald perry]
oenophore Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5933
Loc: 212 land
If you know what your doing it is an R. If you don't know what your doing it's an X

Beg pardon for the deviation here. The above is so true of so many other things in life.
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#59471 - 08/04/11 01:54 PM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: oenophore]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: oenophore
... so true of so many other things in life.


For me, it is the "so many other things in life" I need the guide for. In this world the mountains are the only thing where I know what I am getting myself into before its too late.


Edited by donald perry (08/04/11 01:55 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#59481 - 08/04/11 08:02 PM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey
REDIRECTIONALISM 5.12 R Winter of 1978 & 1979 Don Perry and Michael Burlingame Start 45 right of New Frontier.

FIRST PITCH Climb up past two separated right facing corners to an overhang. Traverse right under overhang to another right facing corner over the roof. Climb through right facing corner to the base of a ramp. Climb up a ramp left (this ramp is called The White Meat Cleaver) to its top and a small ledge.

SECOND PITCH Traverse right a few feet and up to the roof. Turn the roof over the Meat Cleaver, and climb upwards 10' and then right to The Black Meat Clever which faces left. Climb over a over roof and off to the right down a long parallel crack that make up the border for a giant block. Place gear over the block for a hanging belay.

THIRD PITCH Move back to the Z (the overhangs here form a Z as seen from the road) and climb up and left and left again under overhangs to their end, to then climb up a few feet midway before the giant roof. Move left and down to a hanging belay at the top of a hanging block, we called this block the tuning fork.

FOURTH PITCH Climb up to the roof and traverse left to climb into the feature we named The Bombay Chimney to the top.


photo deleted


Edited by Mike Rawdon (03/20/12 12:33 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#59482 - 08/04/11 08:40 PM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: donald perry]
cfrac Offline
addict

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 456
Originally Posted By: donald perry

Variation 1. A4 or (5.13 + R). Joshua Perry & Donald Perry August 2, 2011. Between the Meleski, Gruenberg Variation and the forth pitch of Redirectionalism Direct, climb up into short right facing corners in the overhang to the top.

Notes.

This route, with or without the Meleski, Gruenberg Variation is without question among the very best and most complex and troubling routes in the Shawgunks. This climb is not an aid route, if this climb is aided some of the holds will break off.


Variation 1 has a runout out and over the roof with no protection on 5.13+ moves. We have already climbed it with aid at A4, however we are now working to free this variation and we see no reason for it to continue as an aide climb.


I am trying to make sense of what you are trying to convey in these posts.

First, could you explain how you stated that it has a grade of 5.13+ R but also said you are now working on freeing it.To me, when someone gives something a free climbing grade it is because it has been free climbed.

Secondly, you said that you have aided it but also that it is not an aid route and holds will break off if it is aided. Can you help me understand this apparent contradiction.

Lastly, Chris McNamara's definition of A4 is 6 to 8 bodyweight placements in a row. When you are giving your routes grades would that definition fit?

Thanks

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#59488 - 08/04/11 10:03 PM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey
From cfrac: "…, could you explain how you stated that it has a grade of 5.13+ R but also said you are now working on freeing it. To me, when someone gives something a free climbing grade it is because it has been free climbed.


From Don: I am estimating it is at 5.13, it could be 5.14 or harder. Right now it is A4 but it is no longer under consideration as an aid route so we need to put a free rating there even though we have not done it yet. And it will go free as long as people do not aid on it. If someone else does it first, they will have the first free accent. It's absolutely a boulder problem without the ground mats.


From cfrac: "Secondly, you said that you have aided it but also that it is not an aid route and holds will break off if it is aided. Can you help me understand this apparent contradiction.


From Don: I was lucky, others may not be so lucky, I don't think it's worth the risk. I am talking about the climb now though not the climber. Also if you plan to free it, there is not enough room in the holds for your fingers and a hook at the same time. So the best solution is to let out some slack and take long falls so you do not crash into the wall.


From Cfrac: "Lastly, Chris McNamara's definition of A4 is 6 to 8 bodyweight placements in a row. When you are giving your routes grades would that definition fit?"


From Don: Yes, when you add up the footage. I am using a stick.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#59490 - 08/04/11 11:02 PM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: cfrac]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: cfrac
Lastly, Chris McNamara's definition of A4 is 6 to 8 bodyweight placements in a row.

Rating hard aid by number of bodyweight placements in a row - which implies a certain length fall - without taking landings and things you might hit on the way down into account is kind of old-school. New wave aid ratings definitely take danger into account. Middendorf calls A4 "Serious aid: lots of danger. 60 to 100 foot fall potentials common, with uncertain landings far below." IOW, a 75 foot fall potential on an overhanging headwall into air might well be rated only A3.
Middendorf's aid rating page on BigWalls.net

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#59492 - 08/05/11 12:58 AM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: donald perry]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: donald perry
So as far as your system of grading is concerned it would be A1, but to me its A4 all day long.

My system of grading??? Sorry man, the link I provided is what is now standard in Yosemite and Zion. It really doesn't matter what you call it.

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#59493 - 08/05/11 01:02 AM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: RangerRob]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey
I am rating it A4 as far as the difficulty in getting up it at all with aid. The aid is difficult; you might not make it up there at all. So, I guess I was thinking of grading aid climbing in a way similar to the way I grade free climbing in this instance. For example, if this thing was on the top of the Eiger, it is likely no one would not make it up there, no doubt it would be A4. In other words, if your life depends on surviving in the accent, you may or may not survive.

And if your addicted to climbing the same way some people are addicted to video games, well, that proves my point all the more.

So as far as your system of grading is concerned it would be A1, but to me it's A4 all day long.

I guess I just don't want people to be surprised and not know its troublesome.

Another way to look at it is like this, go try it. When you do not make it up it, what are you going to grade it?, A1?

Unfortunately our grading system is restricted to say a lot of things in only a few points, its hard to impossible, that's what I'm talking about. And if we keep aiding it no ones getting there without a drill because there is not much there to begin with.

I know this sounds confusing, but it's not my fault, I don't have much to work with.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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