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#58329 - 06/28/11 07:44 PM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey


REDIRECTIONALISM 5.12a Winter of 1978 & 1979 Don Perry and Michael Burlingame Start 45 right of New Frontier.

FIRST PITCH Climb up to a close short whitish right facing corner capped by a small overhang on the right (and a bigger overhang on the left). Pass the overhang as you continue straight up to another short right facing corner capped by another larger overhang. Follow a short right facing corner to a small stance. Climb up a ramp left (this ramp is called The White Meat Cleaver) to its top.

SECOND PITCH Traverse right a few feet and up to the roof. Turn the roof over the Meat Cleaver, and climb upwards 10' and then right to The Black Meat Clever which faces left. Climb over a over roof and off to the right down a long parallel crack that make up the border for a giant unstable block. Place gear over the unstable block for a hanging belay.

THIRD PITCH Move back to the Z (the overhangs here form a Z as seen from the road) and climb up and left and left again under overhangs to their end, to then up a few feet midway before the giant roof. Move left and down to a hanging belay at the top of a hanging block we called the tuning fork.

FOURTH PITCH Climb straight up to the roof and traverse left to climb into the feature we named The Bombay Chimney to the top.

Note: In my opinion [DP], Land Grab, Land Grab Direct, Manifest Destiny, Back To The Land Movement, Lessons In History are all variations either ending at or originating from REDIRECTIONALISM. In creating REDIRECTIONALSM we understood all of these as well as other ways, that they should be variations. We concluded that the Meat Clever is the only acceptable access point for defining REDIRECTIONALISM and the climbing above.



Edited by donald perry (06/29/11 03:02 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#58339 - 06/29/11 12:41 AM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey
Climbing Ethics And The Gunks:

Back in the 70's and 80's the climbing scene was political and everyone knew each other, or knew someone who knew who you were, it was nothing like it is today. As a result, there were basically two separate groups within the Gunks climbing community. Among the majority of elite climbers there were certain ethics and morals and approval in order for your climbing to be recognized as legitimate. For example Bill Ravitch said that if you could not climb a 5.9 you should climb 5.8 until you could climb 5.9 without falling in good style. Using the rope to hold your weight was a step reserved for those who had been climbing for somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 years, until one was completely familiar with climbing and clearly understood what protection would and would not do. If you used the rope to rest on or fall early on you were branded as some kind of a person who had no grasp on what rock climbing was, is, or should be. You were considered a menace and danger to society, especially if you were to thinking about putting up new routes with this kind of thinking. Furthermore, there had to be a level playing field, and those who broke the rules were ostracized.

A group of climbers, including myself, eventually disregarded this more exclusive and powerful governing body within the climbing community, but at the same time we did not completely disregard their thinking. Rather we ourselves went through a process of rethinking these ethics individually. As a rule, we purposely, for the most part, naturally began to reject to have our routes recorded in any guide book. We considered it a higher standard not to have our climbs in any guide, to leave them in more of the original state in which we found them. We felt a kind of the typical corporation controlling atmosphere for which we sought to escape by our reason for climbing in the first place. In certain ways this was somewhat hypocritical on our part; however I think we were more sensitive and aware of this kind of thinking.

In the mean time, and during the course of my climbing career, I personally have come to respect the ideals of my contemporaries in the days when I first started climbing. I believe that hanging on the rope is a waste of time, and after a fall it is superior ethically to lower down to a ledge and start over. I am talking about your typical 5.11 climb at the Gunks. However, I also believe that it can be impractical to escape poor ethics in certain instances, on big walls, where the climbing is too time consuming, and especially in places where the weather demands immediate results. In such places there will be few people who will complain regardless, unless you are setting a speed climbing record.



For more information see Pox in Vulgaria -- The Profit of Impurism A Commentary by Mark Robinson. This article was featured in Climbing Magazine in 1977.



Edited by donald perry (06/29/11 12:28 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#58351 - 06/29/11 12:50 PM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: donald perry]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3763
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Don, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the stupid need to have our deeds memorialized in a guidebook. For myself, I believe in the purer motivation of climbing the unknown for adventure's sake, and leaving it more or less as you found it, enabling the next climber to experience it the way you did.

I've got 9 or 10 first ascents in Lost City, out to the right of Cragswood Rd, up on the wall named after you off Foordemore Rd, etc. Are they actually first ascents? OF course not. I'm not so obtuse to belive that someone hasn't climbed them before. But they were first ascents to me. Heck, I even named them all! It would be interesting to compare notes and see what names were given to these lines in the past.

It's not about about rules for me. It's not about following someone elses ethics, or trying to live up to what some elite climber thinks of my ascent style. It's about respecting the environment, leaving it for others to enjoy the way you did, having a great time, and not killing yourself. After all, we are all Conquistadors of the Useless, aren't we!?

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#58357 - 06/29/11 03:27 PM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: donald perry]
acdnyc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 208
Loc: NYC/Kerhonkson
Originally Posted By: donald perry
BTW while we are on the topic of hoaxes, 911 was an inside job. It is impossible that building 7, obviously a well planned implosion that took months of intensive engineering, was orchestrated in a matter of hours. http://www.ae911truth.org/


I agree with you. I was on a tugboat when building 7 was imploded. I had ridden my bike downtown on 9/11 and a person in plain cloths stopped me by Battery Park. There was a tugboat pressing against the railing and they where using it to evacuate everyone to NJ. He was armed with a M-4A1 and he had a badge on a string around his neck. He told me to get on the boat becasue building 7 was going to fall down. I asked why? He said becasue its on fire. I glanced over at the building and said it was made out of steel and fire along can't bring down a building like that. He just stared at me and after what seemed like a a few minutes told me to get on the tug or go to jail. Half way across the Hudson on my free ride I watched he building fall straight down. I even have some black and whites I took at that moment.


Fluoride is also a part of another hoax most of you may or may not believe in. It is a hazardous waste that will bioaccumulate in your body!, read your tooth paste tube about what you should do if you swallow it. So it would be smart to stop brushing your teeth with it and allowing it to be added to your drinking water. What its really good at is reducing your IQ and causing cancer. See Dr. Connett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bjn04-HqVDY


They add it to NYC water. It's linked to cancer and many people are trying to get "them" to stop. The only way to remove it is by using reverse osmosis water filters. I've read it also make you more compliant. Also, it's a huge waste of money becasue tax payers front the bill.



Another one is the Plastic Bottle Chemical BPA or Bisphenol A that most of us have ingested through drinking out of plastic water bottles. It would be smart to use glass bottles and stop drinking out of plastic. What plastic is really good for is boosting cancer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G3u8rDmL9A&feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdVQ7DXf5dg



We've replaced most of our plastic with glass or steel. We also stopped using none stick pans. We use well seasoned iron skillets or stainless steel.
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jugs or mugs

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#58364 - 06/29/11 09:53 PM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: RangerRob]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey
"It's about respecting the environment, leaving it for others to enjoy the way you did, having a great time, and not killing yourself."

I think to some degree, the reasons that I climb never stay the same, my reasons are always changing.


Edited by donald perry (06/29/11 10:00 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#58366 - 06/29/11 09:59 PM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: acdnyc]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey
".. well seasoned iron skillets or stainless steel."

Its always good to know there is still some rational people left. I think climbing makes you take responsibility for your own decisions. Your not allowed to make mistakes.


Edited by donald perry (06/29/11 10:03 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#58367 - 06/29/11 10:24 PM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: donald perry]
oenophore Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5934
Loc: 212 land
I'm tempted to jump into this controversy but realize that it doesn't involve the Northern Millbrook Grand Traverse Ledge.
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#58369 - 06/30/11 01:27 AM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: oenophore]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey
ok ... and if you don't mind me asking, what's that photo of? It looks like Alfalfa, but I can't be sure. I need to get one like that.


Edited by donald perry (06/30/11 01:31 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#58370 - 06/30/11 03:08 AM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: acdnyc]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: acdnyc
Originally Posted By: donald perry
BTW while we are on the topic of hoaxes, 911 was an inside job. It is impossible that building 7, obviously a well planned implosion that took months of intensive engineering, was orchestrated in a matter of hours. http://www.ae911truth.org/


I agree with you. I was on a tugboat when building 7 was imploded. I had ridden my bike downtown on 9/11 and a person in plain cloths stopped me by Battery Park. There was a tugboat pressing against the railing and they where using it to evacuate everyone to NJ. He was armed with a M-4A1 and he had a badge on a string around his neck. He told me to get on the boat becasue building 7 was going to fall down. I asked why? He said becasue its on fire. I glanced over at the building and said it was made out of steel and fire along can't bring down a building like that. He just stared at me and after what seemed like a a few minutes told me to get on the tug or go to jail. Half way across the Hudson on my free ride I watched he building fall straight down. I even have some black and whites I took at that moment.


Fluoride is also a part of another hoax most of you may or may not believe in. It is a hazardous waste that will bioaccumulate in your body!, read your tooth paste tube about what you should do if you swallow it. So it would be smart to stop brushing your teeth with it and allowing it to be added to your drinking water. What its really good at is reducing your IQ and causing cancer. See Dr. Connett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bjn04-HqVDY


They add it to NYC water. It's linked to cancer and many people are trying to get "them" to stop. The only way to remove it is by using reverse osmosis water filters. I've read it also make you more compliant. Also, it's a huge waste of money becasue tax payers front the bill.



Another one is the Plastic Bottle Chemical BPA or Bisphenol A that most of us have ingested through drinking out of plastic water bottles. It would be smart to use glass bottles and stop drinking out of plastic. What plastic is really good for is boosting cancer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G3u8rDmL9A&feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdVQ7DXf5dg



We've replaced most of our plastic with glass or steel. We also stopped using none stick pans. We use well seasoned iron skillets or stainless steel.




Wow...... first 911 was an inside job, then fluoride makes us complacent, what next Kent is really MPNA?
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#58371 - 06/30/11 03:13 AM Re: THE NORTHERN MILLBROOK GRAND TRAVERSE LEDGE [Re: oenophore]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: oenophore
I'm tempted to jump into this controversy but realize that it doesn't involve the Northern Millbrook Grand Traverse Ledge.



Quick oenophore call Ranger "thread police" Rob before this gets out of control.....

Thanks, MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
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