Rationalizations for the Mohonk Preserve's tax exempt status have been:

From Ian: MP members spend money here.
Everyone who lives here spends money here too. MP member expenditures are no more exalted than anyone else's.

From Oen: MP doesn't burden the local community
Wouldn't it be nice if we each paid taxes in accordance with the government services we used? It doesn't work that way. We all shoulder the burden, and generally speaking, those of us more able shoulder more. Not so the MP. And climbers, as a group, use considerable town services. Some 35 Mohonk Preserve calls a year come into the Gardiner fire department.

From Rick:Tax exempt status is legally enacted by elected representatives and therefore ok.
One is left wondering how you feel about huge taxpayer funded government subsidies to big oil companies. In both instances politically influential wealthy corporations have used their influence to further their interests at the expense of others less well off.

From Ian: Locals should recognize they are blessed by our dirtbag presense.
Too funny. The MP's own study concludes the MP, Sam's Point, and Minnewaska combined economic contribution is just $12M or something like 0.3% of the overall economy in Ulster County. Generously speaking, the MP generates perhaps half of that or 0.15%.

Another theme common to many of the posts supporting tax exempt MP status is open space is worth the loss of tax revenue. This is, of course, easy to say when it's not your money. More important though, other means of maintaining open space on the ridge also maintain a tax revenue stream for towns. Minnewaska State Park is a good example.

Exalted? What?

You have to be kidding. We're talking about money that comes in that wouldn't come in otherwise. This is extra. To the tune of $400M for the whole of the county and or the $12M modeled by the Preserve itself as you point out. Seems like a deal to me.




Kent, seriously? OK, so the models say $12M. Works for me. Now, how much tax is lost?



So my taxes to the town of Rochester go where exactly?

Kent, once again you spin. Quote me when you feel so inclined, but please, don't miss quote me. At no point in my post have I said "Tax exempt status is legally enacted by elected representatives and therefore ok." Those are your words, not mine. If your words express how you understood my post, then read the post again, until you understand what it is that I did write.

Additionally, I would figure that you may be the only one who is left wondering how I feel about huge taxpayer funded government subsidies to big oil companies. Keep wondering.

Some 35 Mohonk Preserve calls a year come into the Gardiner fire department.

Speaking as one of those calls: I "bought" two flights from a Gardiner-based heli rescue company. To a tune > $48,000.00 (I should be clear that my health insurance paid those costs).

If it weren't for the MP drawing climbers to the area, that $$ wouldn't have been earned in Gardiner.

And if it weren't for the steady need for such services in Gardiner, they wouldn't be there at all. The fire department in Gardiner might be one truck at the town hall.

One could observe that, aside from the $48,000.00 spent, Gardiner also benefits from beefed-up fire departments and rescue services, because of the MP.

And yet I'm sure some will see an entitled dirtbag taking advantage of town services without any benefit or $$ going to Gardiner. Somehow.

I am glad to see you are up and kicking. Welcome back.

Julie I seriousl doubt the medical flight is Gardiner based...unless I have been blind the last 12 years. The Gardiner Fire Department only follows protocols set by Ulster County 911 when they have injuries sustained from a fall of a certain height. Those flight services are usually based out of Westchester. I can asuure you that neither the Town or the fire department saw a dime of that money.

I have sympathy for your accident and your flight bill, really I do. Attacking the Gardiner Fire Department for your medical and resuce bill is repulsive however. They have done the climbing community more service than any other agency I can think of...including the Mohonk Preserve. Maybe you should work to change the protocol instead of criticizing the people who came to your rescue.

No one forces us to climb cliffs and put our lives at risk. We assume every outcome of that activity when we choose to undertake it, including the medical flight that the fire department is legally bound to call for in that instance.

Furthermore, what has the climbing community ever done for the Gardiner Fire Department? They got a plaque one year at the Filmfest. Wonderful. When was the last time the community did anything collectively to benefit the fire department in a meaningful way? The only instance I know of was when I donated the $250 bucks I made giving a slide show at Rock and Snow to them. Anyone else? Anyone ever give a donation after an incident?

I should go to bed before I get pissed and write something I really shouldn't.

Rob, I think you misunderstand Julie. I think the point she's making is that Kent fails to take account of numerous ways the Preserve contributes to the local economy.

Her specific example-- that climber accidents bring rescue revenue-- is (I'm guessing) meant to be only half-serious. But while I'm only half-sure that she's half-serious, I am totally sure that she's not criticizing rescue personnel or complaining about the size of the bill.

Julie,

Try going to one of the various local town board meetings before you spay online about what local municipalities have and who contributes $$ to them. I don't know about the dirtbag part but you really do come off as quite entitled.

Thanks, MPNA

I may have been a little harsh in my response, and for that I am sorry, but at the very least her post seemed as if she had no idea where her insurance money went, and who benefited. She seemed to imply that the fire department makes out like a fat rat because of climbers, when in fact those rescue calls cost the fire department money. Money that never comes back to them, unless the rescuee decides to be a little philanthropic.