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#60156 - 09/14/11 11:25 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
more loose stuff on the North American Wall feature and Zodiac October 19, 2009 if you're interested:

"...flakes free fell for what seemed like an eternity, slowly spinning and twisting in the air ..."

http://www.bigwalls.com/forum2/index.php?topic=743.0


Edited by donald perry (09/14/11 11:25 PM)
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The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60161 - 09/15/11 04:29 AM Re: Free Soloing [Re: Rickster]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Alex Honnold does not solo all the time. And he did not on-sight Phoenix. So, I suppose I can relate to that after all, because he admits it's intense in his interviews and at the same time admits he has his limits. He says he goes forward being able to down climb. He has the moves wired and goes over them in his mind, it is not like he is onsight leading it. His skipping protection "all that junk" "having to place pro" is a physical advantage, it only takes him a few minutes to get to the crux and he can still down climb. He says in analyzation of his solo's thus far that he feels he has not stepped into a place where he is out of control, nevertheless he also says sometimes he wonders if he has while he is climbing.

I doubt if he will fall if he continues to have the same amount of preparation and reservations about soloing in the first place. I did not realize there was any planning behind what he was doing, I thought he was just going for it. And … he also admits he does not get pumped.

But then again we are talking about 5.13, there is not a lot of wiggle room, and nobody's perfect. So given enough time something will happen. It's not safe.


PHOENIX 5.13A Photos:
http://www.lezec.cz/clanek.php?key=9528&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=link

http://www.mountainproject.com/images/79/76/106197976_large_b568f5.jpg

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/106515880

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/105875281

http://senderfilms.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/honnold-phoenix1-blog1.jpg


Alex Honnold Free Solos The Phoenix (5.13a) in Yosemite:
http://rockandice.com/news/1473-alex-honnold-free-solos-the-phoenix-513a-in-yosemite


Solo, Part I: Alex Honnold Interview
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08x/wfeature-solo-honnold


The Phoenix solo – Alex Honnold interview and rare Ray Jardine insight
http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=38260


VIDEO PROFILE: BD athlete Alex Honnold 5.13 sport climbing at Phalanx of Will, Arizona
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-...of-will-arizona
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60162 - 09/15/11 06:38 AM Re: Free Soloing [Re: donald perry]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397

Quoted to preserve the collection of links, because you never know when this DP clown will delete the post.

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#60168 - 09/15/11 01:32 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: Rickster]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Alex Hommold:
Originally Posted By: Hommold
Well a lot of things are different. The most obvious is that I'm stronger now than when I started soloing. I'm climbing a number harder, so things are just a little easier. Not getting pumped makes everything feel much more secure." … As for taming fear, I'm not sure if I'd phrase it like that. The first time I jugged I was gripped. It was the West Face of Leaning Tower in the Valley—super exposed, overhanging. But after doing a few more walls it became routine. The first time I soloed it was a little scary. Everyone says, "If your foot pops you die," or "What if you get stung by a bee?! You'd die." One by one I had all those things happen to me. I've blown feet, had birds come out of cracks, had bats hiss (which always scares the shit out of me), and nothing ever came of it. You go up there and climb—sometimes you get off route or sometimes it's dirtier than you'd like, but you either push through it or climb down. Nothing dramatic; nothing crazy; certainly never really "do or die" not to say that can't happen, and if it does you're in a bad way."



Ray Jardien in response to Honnold Interview:
Originally Posted By: Jardine
I seconded the Phoenix once, and I was surprised how much easier it was. When on the lead I always sewed it up, so it was much harder placing the pro on the lead … Everything we do has some element of risk. People die getting out of bed. In fact, most people die in bed. So I'm not one to say that free soloing is too dangerous. It's a personal thing, not subject to anyone's all-mighty judgment. The person doing the judging is not safe either.




I think I can prove my point, that as time goes by climbing with a rope becomes more secure in one way and more dangioiurs in another, possibly to compensate so you can get the same amount of adrenalin rush, or perceptual danger that you had when you first started climbing. That climbing is dangerous with a rope because almost unperceptually you could end up soloing. Another problem Hommold has is that he is running out of hard climbs. If he can climb 5.13 on lead without falling, just how many climbs is he left with that he can do under pressure? In this way today for people like Hommold, climbing changes rapidly, a level of difficulty has disappeared for Honnold, where the only way he will ever see it again is by soloing. Climbing with a rope is dangerous; you could be tempted to solo if you get too good at it.


Another thing going on there is a level of over confidence. You cannot compare soloing one grade down and on ever smaller holds to "getting out of bed" or "nothing crazy". This proves my point about our natural tendency to say climbing is safe. If anything these guys should be admitting is that they are getting more dangerous not more safe. But they are not. Soloing is dangerous like driving without brakes, not like driving with them. Perhaps it would be a good idea to temper ones ideas with people who have never climbed to get a realistic perspective.


None of us have much of a past nor can see into the future beyond death by a scientific method. We can't bring up photographs, it is a matter of faith. It is something unknown by Ray's perception. But Ray even goes so far as to say he knows for a fact that death is not "not subject to anyone's all-mighty judgment". Being that the argument for evolution and creation can be argued to have the same amount of factual proof I think it can be argued that overconfidence many times comes with climbing here. Ray says he used to solo, but stopped after he slipped once on a 5.11 while soloing.


BTW, you cannot delete or edit posts back beyond a day more or less.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60174 - 09/15/11 06:37 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: donald perry]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
At least Advocacy was entertaining to some degree. DP is just long winded and of even less interest. I think we need some new pictures for guess the route so we can at least view a post that is interesting, as this stuff was old before it was ever posted.

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#60177 - 09/15/11 06:56 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: Coppertone]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
In the process re-visited the reasons why and how climbing is dangerous and what is the reason for soloing some of these things never occurred to me before. For example, how or why people solo or understanding that if you get too good and do not like putting up new routes so much, like Honnold, you run out of things to do. He admits he is running out of things to do. There are problems with becoming too good a climber I never thought about that in relation to someone who does not like to put up new routes. In other words, even if everyone is board, I'm not. Sorry you're board.


Edited by donald perry (09/15/11 06:57 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60178 - 09/15/11 07:26 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: Coppertone]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: Coppertone
At least Advocacy was entertaining to some degree. DP is just long winded and of even less interest. I think we need some new pictures for guess the route so we can at least view a post that is interesting, as this stuff was old before it was ever posted.


hey coppertone the original MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation thread has sped past the 30,000 view mark! So if you're hankering for a little MPNA there are 39 pages of fun for you to flip through at your leisure. Rest assured we will be posting some new and exciting stuff SOON.

Thanks, MPNA
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The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#60193 - 09/16/11 05:06 AM Re: Free Soloing [Re: Advocacy group]
worthrussell Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 90
Loc: NY, Brooklyn
Seth G I make no personal jab at free soloing on my post. I simply stated that I thought Donald was a Crazy bastard and watching him free solo made me nervous. If someone was belaying him inattentively right off the deck I would have been just as nervous. He looked unstable and shaky. No issues with free soloing, go for it, just know your limits and the route you climb. Donald is a liability and his long winded posts are the only thing that make me cringe more than his climbing.

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#60196 - 09/16/11 01:53 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: worthrussell]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
You're mistaken, you can't tell by lookig. For example,
I would not have looked shakie if I just did it, as tempted as I might have been to do just that. But the reason I did not just do it, the reason I did look shakie is because I was gauging my limitations being sure I could pull it off next to a ledge. You guys and what you were thinking were the farthest thing from my style. You don't know what you are doing, you do not know what you are seeing, you do not know what you are talking about, you cannot even define a safe method or plan when asked. You and Stoodid demonstaight a complete lack of forethought in that reguard. If I did not know what I was doing I would have not looked shakie (my priorities would have been simple
) and not spent oodles of time clogging up the route. You got a lot of newbies falling off the cliff these days. Don't underestamate us old timers, it's rare that we are any kind of liability.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#60207 - 09/17/11 03:22 AM Re: Free Soloing [Re: donald perry]
worthrussell Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 90
Loc: NY, Brooklyn
So let me get this straight if you didn't know what you were doing you wouldn't have been shaky but since you did you were? Donald you have blinded me with your logic. I concede you are a master of both soloing and argument.

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