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#58589 - 07/06/11 06:32 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: worthrussell]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2354
Loc: Boston
Originally Posted By: worthrussell
GO

I could define onsight for you and if I was a complete moron I could just google it or break out my AMA learning basic skills red and white book and type the defintion in word for word. It's an internet forum take my word or don't it doesn't t really matter what you believe my climbing level to be. Are you a certified guide? Would you like to take me out and assess my skill level? I'm not sure what confuses you GO, please define

Thanks

Worth


Huh? Why the defensive tone? I'm not interested in a textbook definition, I'm interested in your definition. Since you the word to describe your ascents on all your climbs thus far, I'd like to know how you define it, so that I can know what your style of ascent was on all your climbs thus far.

BTW, after reading your subsequent posts, I *still* don't know what you mean when you use the word.

My definition of onsight is to lead a climb with no falls, no aid, no resting on the rope, and no beta.

You said you onsighted Ants Line (although I'm starting to wonder if you were actually on a different route) and that you hung on it.

So, clearly, our definitions do not coincide with each other. I would like to know what you mean by onsight.

GO

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#58592 - 07/06/11 06:35 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: stoopid]
Valpine Offline
journeyman

Registered: 06/29/10
Posts: 53
Loc: W.Sand Lake, NY
Originally Posted By: stoopid
Originally Posted By: jakedatc
Originally Posted By: stoopid
Worth, I'm going to miss climbing with you (eventually). As you progress (past what I'm willing and capable of climbing) you'll shed and attract new climbing buddies. It's all part of the sport I suppose. Hopefully you'll still get out for some funsie stuff from time to time, like the plans to do some TR'ing at Peterskill to help nudge our grade and skills up a few nothces... versus doing it on lead, which as has been discussed, is IMHO the dangerous way of learning to climb stronger.

BTW, good lead on Ants Line. I wasn't even willing to try the crux with the swing, and you did it with style with some decent fall potential on less than bomber gear. Anyone know what the face climbing immediately left of Ant's Line's crux goes at? It was tough, maybe as tough, but didn't have any swing on follow so I opted to do it instead.


The left face of the Ants line corner is Ents line .11 something. next face over from Ants line's corner is a .7

what swing were you taking from Ants line's crux It's basically a straight shot from the bolted anchor.


Originally Posted By: coppertone
If you are doing any move on Ants Line with less than bomber gear then you are doing something wrong. I can't think of a better protected climb. There really should not be any swing to worry about. The crux on that has endless gear just below and about the best #1 Camalot placement there is at the overhang with plenty of gear as soon as you pull up.


I wasn't the leader, but seem to recall a good nut placement through the crack system (actually fed the nut into the crack upside down), and that was about it for the start of the crux, then maybe a small cam for the second move to clear the crux. The nut was obviously fine, but the cam wasn't perfect, and if it blew you'd take a bit of a spill. It didn't seem very dangerous or I'd have had Worth downclimb or place more gear, but it did seem PG-ish despite there being plenty of features to use.

The swing was because there was the gear at the crux, then the next piece was 15 feet up and moreso left. If I blew at the crux I'd have a bit of a fast moving ride across the face. At the time it just didn't seem worth it (har har). Our third on the climb had it easy, because as you said the rope falls directly over the route from the anchor.

Ideally Worth could have placed something just above the crux to eliminate the swing, but that's part of learning to lead and protecting the follow(s). In hindsight I could have had the 3rd put me on belay using the tailing rope, but once I saw a way up to the left I traversed out and took that to the left corner of the roof. It wasn't 5.11, I think perhaps I wasn't that far left and probably just in a no-man's zone between the regular line for Ant's Line and the next route.


Just to clear up the confusion...Stoopid is referring to City Lights, not Ant's Line. Worth on-sighted City Lights with stoopid following. Worth led Ant's Line on a different day with a different partner.


Edited by Valpine (07/06/11 08:15 PM)

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#58593 - 07/06/11 06:40 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: Valpine]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2354
Loc: Boston
Originally Posted By: Valpine
Originally Posted By: stoopid
Originally Posted By: jakedatc
Originally Posted By: stoopid
Worth, I'm going to miss climbing with you (eventually). As you progress (past what I'm willing and capable of climbing) you'll shed and attract new climbing buddies. It's all part of the sport I suppose. Hopefully you'll still get out for some funsie stuff from time to time, like the plans to do some TR'ing at Peterskill to help nudge our grade and skills up a few nothces... versus doing it on lead, which as has been discussed, is IMHO the dangerous way of learning to climb stronger.

BTW, good lead on Ants Line. I wasn't even willing to try the crux with the swing, and you did it with style with some decent fall potential on less than bomber gear. Anyone know what the face climbing immediately left of Ant's Line's crux goes at? It was tough, maybe as tough, but didn't have any swing on follow so I opted to do it instead.


The left face of the Ants line corner is Ents line .11 something. next face over from Ants line's corner is a .7

what swing were you taking from Ants line's crux It's basically a straight shot from the bolted anchor.


Originally Posted By: coppertone
If you are doing any move on Ants Line with less than bomber gear then you are doing something wrong. I can't think of a better protected climb. There really should not be any swing to worry about. The crux on that has endless gear just below and about the best #1 Camalot placement there is at the overhang with plenty of gear as soon as you pull up.


I wasn't the leader, but seem to recall a good nut placement through the crack system (actually fed the nut into the crack upside down), and that was about it for the start of the crux, then maybe a small cam for the second move to clear the crux. The nut was obviously fine, but the cam wasn't perfect, and if it blew you'd take a bit of a spill. It didn't seem very dangerous or I'd have had Worth downclimb or place more gear, but it did seem PG-ish despite there being plenty of features to use.

The swing was because there was the gear at the crux, then the next piece was 15 feet up and moreso left. If I blew at the crux I'd have a bit of a fast moving ride across the face. At the time it just didn't seem worth it (har har). Our third on the climb had it easy, because as you said the rope falls directly over the route from the anchor.

Ideally Worth could have placed something just above the crux to eliminate the swing, but that's part of learning to lead and protecting the follow(s). In hindsight I could have had the 3rd put me on belay using the tailing rope, but once I saw a way up to the left I traversed out and took that to the left corner of the roof. It wasn't 5.11, I think perhaps I wasn't that far left and probably just in a no-man's zone between the regular line for Ant's Line and the next route.


Just to clear up the confusion...Stoopid is referring to City Lights, not Ant's Line.


Wait, so was Worth on Ants Line or City Lights?

GO

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#58597 - 07/06/11 07:22 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: GOclimb]
ShakesALot Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 255
Loc: NJ

Why do you care so much GO, hasn't Worth already been corrected and scolded enough for you? In the first sentence of his post he admits to being a "relative noob" but you still need to jump in with some more kicks?

Perhaps I'm being too harsh on *you* of course, since obviously you haven't read/comprehended many of the posts in this thread so well...

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#58602 - 07/06/11 08:08 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: ShakesALot]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2354
Loc: Boston
Huh? Shakes, I'm trying to clarify. To be honest, I'm not interested in either correcting or scolding. I'm interested in understanding what the OP was trying to get across.

It's precisely because he's a newish climber that I need to do this. It's quite possible that, for example, he thinks that OS means one's first attempt, whether you get it clean or not. I don't want to give any advice on what climbs would be best for him before I understand the problem.

I don't know about you, but I try to fully understand an issue before I give any advice.

Quote:
Perhaps I'm being too harsh on *you* of course, since obviously you haven't read/comprehended many of the posts in this thread so well...


Since you are so certain, please explain to me what the OP means when he says OS, and which climb he was on when he talks about Ants Line.

Thanks,

GO

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#58604 - 07/06/11 08:30 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: GOclimb]
Valpine Offline
journeyman

Registered: 06/29/10
Posts: 53
Loc: W.Sand Lake, NY
Originally Posted By: GOclimb

Wait, so was Worth on Ants Line or City Lights?

GO


What stoopid is referring to here is City Lights (not Ant's Line)...
Originally Posted By: stoopid
Worth, I'm going to miss climbing with you (eventually). As you progress (past what I'm willing and capable of climbing) you'll shed and attract new climbing buddies. It's all part of the sport I suppose. Hopefully you'll still get out for some funsie stuff from time to time, like the plans to do some TR'ing at Peterskill to help nudge our grade and skills up a few nothces... versus doing it on lead, which as has been discussed, is IMHO the dangerous way of learning to climb stronger.

BTW, good lead on Ants Line. I wasn't even willing to try the crux with the swing, and you did it with style with some decent fall potential on less than bomber gear. Anyone know what the face climbing immediately left of Ant's Line's crux goes at? It was tough, maybe as tough, but didn't have any swing on follow so I opted to do it instead.


I am not questioning anything that Worth has said. I am merely stating that Stoopid got his route names mixed up when making the above statement. Worth has led Ant's Line since he has led City Lights but not with stoopid as a witness.

Comprende??


Edited by Valpine (07/06/11 08:32 PM)

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#58605 - 07/06/11 08:35 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: Valpine]
stoopid Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 67
Loc: West Sand Lake, NY
My bad, complete derailment. I was with worth doing City Lights, but then a few days or week later he did Ants Line with someone else. Sorry!!

FWIW I've enjoyed much of this thread for the insights into climbing and leading. I could personally give two shits if someone onsights, cleanly, with blue underwear on. If they climb, have fun, don't hurt themselves or someone else in the process then I'd call it a success. Names, labels, and definitions for free soloing first ascents onsight while red pointing a red bull concerns me not, and I really think it's a disease on the sport. If one cannot climb for the sheer sake of enjoyment, and numbers and other adjectives become a goal/reason for climbing, then there's little hope. Climb on.

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#58606 - 07/06/11 08:36 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: GOclimb]
worthrussell Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 90
Loc: NY, Brooklyn
Go
if you read the previous posts i stated that my definition of onsight, in regards to Ant's line was improper.I guess the proper phrasing should have been attempting to onsight. This small wording error has been kicked and bashed to death. My definition of onsight is to climb a route clean no hangs and no beta minus whatever was written as a description in the guidebook. This definition has once again been corrected and now my understanding, from previous posters on this forum, is that an onsight and a First ascent are synonymous. After all I suppose any Beta, chalkmarks guidebook etc, constitutes Beta and I'm a mess for not understanding these glaringly obvious definitions. The one thing I have learned throughout this posting on a forum is to not post on this forum unless I'm in the mood to get sprayed.

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#58607 - 07/06/11 08:38 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: worthrussell]
stoopid Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 67
Loc: West Sand Lake, NY
Originally Posted By: worthrussell
The one thing I have learned throughout this posting on a forum is to not post on this forum unless I'm in the mood to get sprayed.


If you post on bulletin boards often enough you develop tough skin and learn to take what you need, and leave the rest. smile

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#58608 - 07/06/11 08:40 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: stoopid]
SethG Offline
addict

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 680
Loc: NYC
There is totally bomber gear (.75 C4) in the upper pod on City Lights! If you're doing that crux with much fall potential you've missed the obvious placement and you're hitting the deck!
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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