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#58609 - 07/06/11 08:41 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: worthrussell]
Valpine Offline
journeyman

Registered: 06/29/10
Posts: 55
Loc: W.Sand Lake, NY
GO, I will be climbing with Worth this week. For a small fee I can slap him upside the head for you.

I will slap stoopid for free.

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#58611 - 07/06/11 08:47 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: SethG]
stoopid Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 67
Loc: West Sand Lake, NY
Originally Posted By: SethG
There is totally bomber gear (.75 C4) in the upper pod on City Lights! If you're doing that crux with much fall potential you've missed the obvious placement and you're hitting the deck!


Seth, that might be the cam placement I remember. Refresh my memory, but does/can the cam get in the way of the hands in that section? Worth would be better equiped to comment here as he was the one leading it and would have the better idea if he thought the gear was sufficient.

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#58612 - 07/06/11 09:23 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: stoopid]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
By the way the face just to the left of City Lights is Pax De Duex and is 5.8.

Worth, for the most part I don't think you were really getting bashed, actually most of the disagreement was between others regarding what their thoughts on the style a climb should be done in. The misunderstanding about how you were using "onsight" does have some relevance to what recommendations people would be giving you for your next step in your leading progression. Perhaps this is all just like a Roger Clemens congressional hearing and is was all misremembered.

And Stoopid while everyone is entitled to their own opinion and having fun is a very important thing it really does matter how one climbs as there is a significant difference between a bold ground up onsight first ascent and hangdogging a bolted chalked up 5.8. Making these distinctions is hardly a disease on the sport and giving those bold souls their due that had the vision and foresight to put up the routes that we get to enjoy is the least we can do. Recognizing the achievements of others and the style in which they realized those achievements is not a disease but the history and heritage of climbing. To think otherwise is just silly.

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#58613 - 07/06/11 09:37 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: worthrussell]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2361
Loc: Boston
Okay, I get it. We've got the same definition of OS, you just misapplied it to that one climb.

So, to your question.

Originally Posted By: worthrussell
If you were me and wanted to become a solid 9 leader at the gunks b4 season's end what would you do? easier grade climbing with runout or tr some tough stuff to hone my climbing? Im not caught up in the grade i just love the way the 9s in the gunks look. If i could lead solid 9 i could stay busy in the trapps for quite some time. Any feedback or route suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Of the two things you suggested (bolded above) I'd say neither. My suggestion would be to spend as much time as you can at the Gunks, on lead, working your way through the grades. Focus on 5.8s for now. Once you get feeling reasonably comfortable on 5.8s, and have done one or two of the harder ones, pick out another easy first 5.9 (or get back on Ants). Keep picking off occasional low-hanging fruit for 5.9s while you continue to work your way through all the 5.8s.

Also, if you are not a local, and have limited time you can spend at the Gunks, but have a climbing gym near your house, spend time there building up strength and endurance.

That would be my suggestion.

Cheers,

GO

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#58617 - 07/06/11 10:20 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: GOclimb]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Originally Posted By: GOclimb

Also, if you are not a local, and have limited time you can spend at the Gunks, but have a climbing gym near your house, spend time there building up strength and endurance.

That would be my suggestion.

Cheers,

GO


I second this. It's amazing what some extra physical capability does for a developing lead head. Conversely, it's hard to be bold and confident above your gear when your fingers/hands/arms are in the midst of a meltdown.

In addition (or as an alternative) to the gym, I'd suggest that as often as possible you TR or follow harder things than you can lead. 5.9 holds seem a bit bigger and more positive after a bout of 5.10 cruxes.

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#58631 - 07/07/11 06:25 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: Coppertone]
stoopid Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 67
Loc: West Sand Lake, NY
Originally Posted By: Coppertone
And Stoopid while everyone is entitled to their own opinion and having fun is a very important thing it really does matter how one climbs as there is a significant difference between a bold ground up onsight first ascent and hangdogging a bolted chalked up 5.8. Making these distinctions is hardly a disease on the sport and giving those bold souls their due that had the vision and foresight to put up the routes that we get to enjoy is the least we can do. Recognizing the achievements of others and the style in which they realized those achievements is not a disease but the history and heritage of climbing. To think otherwise is just silly.


That wasn't quite my intent for the rant... has more to do with people who aren't bold speaking like they are, or whose motivations are more ego than climbing centered. The internet is a great place to build rhetorical muscles.

But while we're on the subject - ultimately, who cares who led the FA? Why should the first ascender care unless they did it for glory and their name in neon lights? A pat on the back and on to the next climb should suffice. Anything more is attention seeking. It's not like they sculpted the cliff with their bare hands.

And I walk the walk - there's routes I've cleaned that I will never be mentioned for having worked on for the FA, and routes I've put up another has free climbed for the first ascent. Oh well, I continue to put up routes when and where I can and if it wasn't for the insistence of Haas and Jawyer I'd not even have my name submitted.
____________________

I third building strength as being an important tool for leading, and the TR'ing idea was already considered when we did City Lights (our next time climbing was supposed to be TR'ing at Peterskill to up our grade a bit). Coming into this season I was, at best, a 5.5 leader at the gunks. Now I'm closer to being a 5.7 some 5.8s leader (in just a matter of 4 months, using the low hanging fruit idea as GO suggested, climbing 5.5 routes, doing some 5.6s, etc to slowly build my abilities). While I have been slow to push my grade, it has more to do with climbing regularly and getting stronger. Despite 4+ years experience I've only this year actually come to feel confident, and it's showing in my climbing.

Worth is one of the strongest climbers I know, and if anything it's been a detriment since he'll tend to powr his way through tough stretches versus using proper technique (which is improving!). At some point a climber must learn technique or they hit a ceiling (and hopefully not a ledge). So it's really a balance of strength, endurance, and technique. I focus on whatever seems lacking at the moment. For me it's been strength. Pull up board at home is slowly being worked into a daily routine, slow as to not damage any ligments/connective tissue. You can get too strong too fast and develop some very serious tendon issues if you're not careful.

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#58649 - 07/08/11 01:02 AM Re: confidence routes [Re: SethG]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
a .75 C4? Really? We're talking about the triangular shaped pod at the top of the crux move, about 10-12 feet off the ground? A number 12 stopper sideways in the bottom of that slot is about the best stopper one could find...anywhere. It seems like the most obvious nut placement on a beginner Gunks route I can think of.

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#58655 - 07/08/11 11:34 AM Re: confidence routes [Re: RangerRob]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 710
Loc: NYC
Yeah, that's the pod. The nut sounds good too, my point was that there's good gear there.
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#58668 - 07/08/11 07:03 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: SethG]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Ah yes...I wholeheartedly agree with you.

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#58669 - 07/08/11 07:10 PM Re: confidence routes [Re: RangerRob]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
The part on city lights that get slightly run out is the face above when the route bellys out to the left near Pax De Dux. The crux is, as you pointed out extremely well protected.

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