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#58746 - 07/13/11 09:56 PM chimneying is Easy, Right?
rg@ofmc Online   content
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Registered: 12/25/99
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Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY

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#58747 - 07/13/11 11:06 PM Re: chimneying is Easy, Right? [Re: rg@ofmc]
Rickster Online   content
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Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 816
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
What's 8a about 5.13+? He seemed to forget the toe heel, toe heel movement and looked so relieved to start doing some "normal" stemming.

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#58752 - 07/14/11 01:26 PM Re: chimneying is Easy, Right? [Re: Rickster]
SethG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 680
Loc: NYC
Wow, thanks for posting that link. Looks freakin' hard. I can't question the guy's technique. Nice to see a climbing vid where the hero climber looks honestly scared.
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#58757 - 07/14/11 03:13 PM Re: chimneying is Easy, Right? [Re: SethG]
GOclimb Offline
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Registered: 03/26/01
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Loc: Boston
Wow, awesome. Looks like a fantastic route, with super-cool movement. Even with all those bolts, though, I'd be petrified climbing on what appears to be slate!

GO

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#58758 - 07/14/11 03:21 PM Re: chimneying is Easy, Right? [Re: GOclimb]
rg@ofmc Online   content
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Registered: 12/25/99
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Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
It is slate. There's all kinds of horrendous steep slab climbing on former slate quarries in Llanberis.

Rick, I don't think heel-toe technique gets you anywhere in a badly flared dihedral.

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#58762 - 07/14/11 03:55 PM Re: chimneying is Easy, Right? [Re: rg@ofmc]
TerrieM Online   content
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Registered: 05/14/09
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Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
eeps! Pretty buttery down low.

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#58763 - 07/14/11 04:07 PM Re: chimneying is Easy, Right? [Re: rg@ofmc]
Rickster Online   content
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Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 816
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc

Rick, I don't think heel-toe technique gets you anywhere in a badly flared dihedral.


My experience in chimneys is extremely limited and never, ever even close to the level of difficulty shown in the vid, just seemed much easier for him as he placed that rear foot up under his butt and stood up.

Though huffing and puffing, he made fine work of the pitch, and who doesn't get in some huffing and puffing when thrutching up a chimney, especially an 8a badly flared dihedral?

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#58764 - 07/14/11 04:49 PM Re: chimneying is Easy, Right? [Re: Rickster]
rg@ofmc Online   content
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Registered: 12/25/99
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Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Oh, you mean back-stepping. Heel-toe refers to jamming the heel against the toe in offwidths and is a critical technique, but the walls have to be nearly parallel for it to work.

The situation looks desperate enough that he's continually trying to get something, anything to work. Backstepping gets your back off the wall, making it easier to move up, but then it is just your feet keeping you in, you lose all the friction of your back against the flare. A combination of back friction and palming might be more secure.

Years ago I tried something analogous in Yosemite (but it was 5.10, not 5.13). Can't remember the name, it was a variation on the top pitch of something on the Cookie cliff, I think. Same deal, chimneying in a very open dihedral. Totally shut me down. You can't imagine how complex and sophisticated the counterforce issues are until you try something like this.

I also remember some frightening flared chimneying on the West Face of Sentinel, on a pitch that was supposed to be A3 at the time and is now 5.11. At one point, I chimneyed the flare while pulling gently on horrible pin placement that I didn't trust to put body weight on. Protection was a bunch of A3 pins below. Yikes!

The Quarryman is 2-3 grades harder than any of that. I wouldn't be surprised if most of us couldn't manage more than a move or two. Keeping it together after a few super insecure moves is a real problem, and the climber, who I'm sure is very good and who has probably worked the route, nearly loses it two or three times.

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#58766 - 07/14/11 05:34 PM Re: chimneying is Easy, Right? [Re: rg@ofmc]
Rickster Online   content
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Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 816
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
Oh, you mean back-stepping. Heel-toe refers to jamming the heel against the toe in offwidths and is a critical technique, but the walls have to be nearly parallel for it to work.


Well there you have it. My poor choice of words again. Thank you Rich for the clarification of terms. These web discussions are so different than the ones of yore, where participants are free to actually dance around beneath the Ube demonstrating the technique in question move for move, like a puppet on a string.

When stacking feet in off widths, I always placed my heel against my instep if possible. I so hate that crushing feeling across my toes.

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#58767 - 07/14/11 06:36 PM Re: chimneying is Easy, Right? [Re: Rickster]
Chas Offline
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Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 1754
Loc: Flagstaff
I wouldn't call that offwidth'ing. Its more good use of body english in a tight dihedral. Its cool given the tenuous nature of the route.

As for heel/toe (the classical offwidth technique), it works pretty good in flairs. I even use in in 90deg angle dihedrals occasionally to cop a rest or if one of the feet have edges high edges and you need to keep moving the foot up, I'll heel/toe in the dihedral sometimes.


Edited by Chas (07/14/11 08:36 PM)

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