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#59368 - 07/27/11 10:45 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: TerrieM]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2470
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
...which means that when the soloist decks, they land in the family picnic basket, which can then conveniently be used to transport the remains to a more appropriate location.

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#59369 - 07/27/11 10:53 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: TerrieM]
retroscree Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: TerrieM
At Stobly(Siberia) free-solo climbing is traditional, and a family outing.

Stolby.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwCyM84HCcA

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#59394 - 07/29/11 02:06 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: TerrieM]
Chas Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 1754
Loc: Flagstaff
I liked the little gem of wisdom from Jim Donini on SuperTaco.... If you are going to solo and fall, fall early.

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#59403 - 08/01/11 12:16 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: Chas]
cfrac Offline
addict

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 462
or from Alex McAfee's guidebook section entitled Finding a Partner:
"Dale Bard once said, 'The best thing you can do to improve your soloing is to get a partner.' Dale has got it together."

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#59533 - 08/07/11 12:40 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: cfrac]
stoopid Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 67
Loc: West Sand Lake, NY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwCyM84HCcA

Death is common place to them at these crags, where no rope or pro is used. COMMON PLACE.

In light of this, what I already know, what I've learned recently, and what I think I know, I'm pretty much convinced this isn't an activity I will ever practice myself or recommend anyone else do.

I also don't think it's good ethic to advise others to do it, publicly. It's essentially, IMO, bad advice. Like telling someone to pour water in the gas tank of their car. It might not stop the vehicle immediately, but it will eventually the more you do it. I'll be as bold as to say matter of factly to the pro-soloing community here: keep your thoughts and ideas locked up inside your head. I don't care you do it, I don't care if freedom of speech protects your right to say you do. When it has the real potential to affect other people's lives, rights of the whole trump your individual selfish desires and afflictions. Thrill seekers need psychological help. I see every needless death of a soloist as a indictment against the entire soloing community. Shame on all of you.

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#59534 - 08/07/11 01:07 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: stoopid]
TerrieM Online   content
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
The last comment on that video says

"..Good afternoon! I live in Krasnoyarsk&#65279; and itself each days off I go there. I confirm, many(a lot of,much) person there goes, but is far from being all climbing. Basically people rise on the simple courses, not representing to serious danger. They do not demand rocky footwear and cords. Complex(difficult) courses many go with equipment - cords, &#1086;&#1073;&#1074;&#1103;&#1079;&#1082;&#1080;, delays, carbines. The basic danger on Columns not absence of a cord, but insects, the spiders called "&#1082;&#1083;&#1077;&#1097;&#1072;&#1084;&#1080;", carrying fatal chronic diseases."


So - sure, there have been people who died at Stolby. Just as there have been deaths at crags throughout the world. To say "common place" - really?

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#59538 - 08/07/11 04:33 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: TerrieM]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2470
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Originally Posted By: stoopid
I see every needless death of a soloist as a indictment against the entire soloing community. Shame on all of you.


Hmmm...first you raise the issue and get the discussion started, then you praise the civility of the discussion, and then you criticize the people whose opinions you solicited in a way that presages a decline in civility.

Turning to content, every climbing death and every climbing injury, and the huge majority of them occur to climbers who are not soloing, is "needless." No one is forced to go climbing.

If the so-called "soloing community," which I think, properly understood, includes all alpine climbers and a majority of trad climbers, somehow bears responsibility for soloing deaths, then there is no avoiding the conclusion that the climbing community, together with its magazines, videos, movies, and internet forums, is equally responsible for all the needless climbing deaths.

This sounds to me like the rants one hears from people who regularly break speed limits but who call those who drive 5 mph faster than they do crazy. Climbing involves the voluntary assumption of risks. There is, of course, a spectrum of possible risks assumed, but all climbers, especially all trad climbers, expose themselves to the potential of a needless death, and anyone who speaks of climbing in positive tones could be accused of complicity in encouraging such risky behavior.

Free solo is how climbing began. Until the introduction of nylon ropes, a leader was a free soloist with extra responsibilities. Free soloing will always be part of the climbing experience, and it is not intrinsically different from other climbing pursuits. Get used to it, or perhaps rethink your own involvement in climbing and the risks you yourself volunteer for.

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#59540 - 08/07/11 05:36 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: rg@ofmc]
whatthegunks Offline
member

Registered: 05/09/09
Posts: 136
Loc: High Falls, NY
I'm sort of thinking that unless it's coming from the end of Dirty Harry's 45 most deaths are "needless".

The Stolby video goes to the heart of how far apart people's ideas about acceptable risk are, it's personal and cultural. People in a given community have different perceptions and entire communities can have wildly different ideas too. I have had several people that I have guided point out how they saw all kinds of people soloing in areas out west and that here in the Gunks it's rare. When I lived in Boulder people were soloing all over the place, Eldo, the Flatirons, Boulder Canyon, it's just totally common and accepted. Stolby is a whole other level, a hundred and fifty year climbing history that has evolved into what goes on there today; insane? seems that way, but that is merely my perception and who am I to say.

Point is that I hate to hear people getting righteous about how bad soloing is when the average person perceives the risks we all take as climbers as nutter and they don't know any differences between a bolted sport route and Talus Food, it's all crazy. Is soloing riskier than a competent leader climbing within their limits? yeah, but not everybody on a rope is competent or within their limits and that's when things get fuzzy. A totally focused soloist that is floating a hard wired route is arguably a lot less likely to crater than a new leader fresh from the gym with a copy of Gunks Select and a rig of shiny cams.

The soloist that presents a danger of falling on you or your friends deserves a ration of shit, but the rest deserve your silence.

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#59559 - 08/09/11 08:07 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: rg@ofmc]
schwortz Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 308
Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
Free soloing will always be part of the climbing experience, and it is not intrinsically different from other climbing pursuits. Get used to it, or perhaps rethink your own involvement in climbing and the risks you yourself volunteer for.


+1

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#59560 - 08/09/11 08:37 PM Re: Free Soloing [Re: whatthegunks]
acdnyc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 208
Loc: NYC/Kerhonkson
Originally Posted By: whatthegunks
I'm sort of thinking that unless it's coming from the end of Dirty Harry's 45 most deaths are "needless".


Dirty Harry used a .44 Magnum.

Roland use a single action .45 with saddle wood handles.

Most soloing careers end up at the same place. At the bottom of the the climb. I've done it and may do it again. I've solo climbed rock, ice and mountains. That's in the past but even now the only real feeling I have left from it is that I cheated death.

It also leaves a slimy film on my senses. It makes me feel so irresponsible to the ones I love and the people and one dog that love me. For some moment of personal gain that holds no real value outside of a "Hey, look what I did" moment my loved ones could suffer for a lifetime. Maybe that feeling has changed for me because I'm recently married or I'm older and "wiser".

But, does that mean that I won't do it again?
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