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#59469 - 08/04/11 11:56 AM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
New Paltz land deal draws concern
Published: Thursday, August 04, 2011

By WILLIAM J. KEMBLE
Correspondent

NEW PALTZ — The Town Board has been asked to review how much land would be taken off the local tax rolls and to consider potential boundary disputes under a request to subdivide a 1,362-acre parcel so that 874 acres can be sold to the Open Space Institute, which then would turn it over to the Mohonk Preserve.

Town resident Chris Ullrich told the board at a recent meeting that the matter needs to be taken seriously by officials charged with protecting taxpayers' interests.

Ullrich, who has a case pending in state Supreme Court over a boundary dispute brought by the Mohonk Preserve, said the town Open Space Commission does not have enough information on the impact of the application for the subdivision filed by Smiley Brothers Inc., which owns the Mohonk Mountain Hose resort.

Ullrich said the land transfer is "a great idea, but I think it's misguided to go into it blindly and to not really understand what the tax ramifications are."

Open Space Institute Vice President Bob Anderberg said on Wednesday said the amount of taxes involved is not one of the factors that town Planning Board members can use when voting on a subdivision request but that the organization is preparing a report that includes the information.

"We don't believe that the issue of real property taxes comes into play at this time, but we're happy to provide the analysis," Anderberg said.

Ullrich said one concern is a 630-foot overlap of private property along a section that abuts New York City's Catskill Aqueduct.

"That is definitely something that is of concern for the Mohonk Preserve Neighbors Association," he said.

Anderberg said the owner of that property already has voiced support for the subdivision plan.

Ullrich also said information about new structures on the site has been contradictory.

Anderberg said the goal of buying the 874 acres is to preserve open space and that studies would be done before any construction is proposed.

"We're going to take a look at recreational use, parking, trails, how to continue the extensive tradition of agriculture, how to preserve the historic buildings. This is a big task, and it's going to take some time," Anderberg said.
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#59476 - 08/04/11 04:54 PM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Advocacy group]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Originally Posted By: retroscree
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group

No we're saying that it's hypocritical for the director of land protection for the Mohonk Preserve to own a house on the top of the very ridge she is trying to protect.

It's not hypocritical for her to live in a town on the National Historic Register that's been in existence for centuries before the Mohonk Preserve. You're just being an ass about it.


We feel that the Director of land protection for the Mohonk Preserve has a responsibility to practice what she and the organization that she represents preaches. If you want to prevent development on the top of the ridge you shouldn't tell others how bad it is to develop those areas while living in that environment yourself.

Nope - just don't see it. People have to live somewhere. What's more, she's living in an existing town hundreds of years old, not new development, that is protected (via listing on the National Historic Register). The development has already occurred long before the existence of the Preserve. The Preserve is working to prevent further and future private development. If anything, her living in Cragmoor is the embodiment of protecting the ridge. But since you see everything about the Preserve as being perversely evil ever since you were charged with trespass and cutting trees and wood on Preserve property....

Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Hypocrisy unfortunately is rampant in many environmental groups. The Nature Conservancy, one of Mohonk Preserve's partners was exposed for selling environmentally sensitive land to their wealthiest donors and were publicly humiliated for their actions.

This is completely tangential and just clutters the argument.


Edited by webmaster (08/06/11 02:12 PM)

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#59497 - 08/05/11 03:17 AM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: retroscree]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: retroscree
Nope - just don't see it. People have to live somewhere. What's more, she's living in an existing town hundreds of years old, not new development, that is protected (via listing on the National Historic Register). The development has already occurred long before the existence of the Preserve. The Preserve is working to prevent further and future private development. If anything, her living in Cragmoor is the embodiment of protecting the ridge. But since you see everything about the Preserve as being perversely evil ever since you were charged with trespass and cutting trees and wood on Preserve property....

Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Hypocrisy unfortunately is rampant in many environmental groups. The Nature Conservancy, one of Mohonk Preserve's partners was exposed for selling environmentally sensitive land to their wealthiest donors and were publicly humiliated for their actions.

This is completely tangential and just clutters the argument.


A quick google search revealed at least four houses for sale, one of them built in 2004 MLS#502328. So much for your protection argument. The old stone church in Cragsmoor which is a historic church was built in 1897 which is pretty recent for ulster county history. We agree that people have to "live somewhere" but it is ironic that the Director of Land Protection for the Mohonk Preserve owns a home and rents out rooms for weekend and weekly use on the very ridge she and the Mohonk Preserve are trying to protect. Her contact for this service is even listed as a Mohonk Preserve email.


Edited by webmaster (08/06/11 02:24 PM)
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#59501 - 08/05/11 11:47 AM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: retroscree]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Thanks for contributing Retroscree. Rest assured local residents care and the many newspaper reports are a testament to this.

Thanks, MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#59506 - 08/05/11 12:15 PM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3764
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Advo, I appreciate that this thread is now in it's correct forum. First off, I do think it is both unethical and potentially dangerous to take it upon yourself to post personal information about other people without their consent. You could have stated The Ms. Garafolini lives in a ridgetop community without resorting to revealing the road she lives on. That goes over the line and I would respectfully request that you edit your post. I'm sure you wouldn't like people people posting exactly where you live and what your businesses name is, would you?

I do have a suggestion for you, in the spirit of having a constructive dialogue. I think many, if not all the people who visit this site would assume that you are looking for some measure of climbers support. If not, then why would you take so much time to continue to post on this site? Therefore, it would be in your best interest to befriend climbers, and not alienate them. Have you ever considered allowing climbers access to your land for climbing purposes? Allowing access to some historic and quality climbing would put you and your organization in a better light, and would also give you a platform to reach out to those climbers in a non threatening manner.

Having climbers arrested for supposedly trespassing on your land when in fact they were on the disputed Mohonk/Ulrich lands only sets up a huge rift between you and those you wish to gain support from. Shouting vauge threats up through the woods at people who, as far as they know by posted signs and access, are on Preserve land suggesting physical harm to those people is definitely not going to win you any support points.

Those are my suggestions. I hope we can discuss them in a constructive way, and keep peoples personal information off the site.

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#59518 - 08/05/11 06:30 PM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3764
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Advo, you were a tool because you refused to put these posts in the proper forum, not because of your stance aginst the Preserve. I was upset that you were hijacking a climbing forum for your own needs. It's funny, and a little sad,that now that it is in the proper forum, and you have people who would like to discuss your issues on their mertis, all you can do is attack.

Ms. Garafolini may have done exactly what you said, but that still does not give you the right to disseminate her personal information for your own needs. Your point is just as effective by stating that she lives on top of the ridge. You gain no further benefit by stating which town and road she lives on. So why do you resort to those tactics? You've tried to do it with me as well, and at the same time you hide behind a veil of internet anonymity. I'm sure you wouldn't want your profession and your home address linked to this thread or this forum, would you? All I'm saying is that you would get a lot more people to listen to what you have to say if you changed your tactics a little.

Lastly, what does the Access fund have to do with me suggesting you make some friends instead of enemies in the climbing community? I don't think I was advocating trespassing on your land, was I?

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#59528 - 08/06/11 02:42 PM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: RangerRob]
webmaster Offline

veteran

Registered: 01/06/00
Posts: 1273
Loc: New Paltz (Kerhonkson, actuall...
Note: I've removed the references to personal information contained in this thread. The board guidelines clearly state:
Quote:
Don't reveal another user's identity or personal information in the forum.
_________________________
evan marks
webmaster@gunks.com
I wish I could read every post...

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#59623 - 08/14/11 02:06 PM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: RangerRob]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Advo, I appreciate that this thread is now in it's correct forum. First off, I do think it is both unethical and potentially dangerous to take it upon yourself to post personal information about other people without their consent. You could have stated The Ms. Garafolini lives in a ridgetop community without resorting to revealing the road she lives on. That goes over the line and I would respectfully request that you edit your post. I'm sure you wouldn't like people people posting exactly where you live and what your businesses name is, would you?

I do have a suggestion for you, in the spirit of having a constructive dialogue. I think many, if not all the people who visit this site would assume that you are looking for some measure of climbers support. If not, then why would you take so much time to continue to post on this site? Therefore, it would be in your best interest to befriend climbers, and not alienate them. Have you ever considered allowing climbers access to your land for climbing purposes? Allowing access to some historic and quality climbing would put you and your organization in a better light, and would also give you a platform to reach out to those climbers in a non threatening manner.

Having climbers arrested for supposedly trespassing on your land when in fact they were on the disputed Mohonk/Ulrich lands only sets up a huge rift between you and those you wish to gain support from. Shouting vauge threats up through the woods at people who, as far as they know by posted signs and access, are on Preserve land suggesting physical harm to those people is definitely not going to win you any support points.

Those are my suggestions. I hope we can discuss them in a constructive way, and keep peoples personal information off the site.



RR, I don't think the following quotes follow Access Fund guidelines. These are prior quotes that you have made.

RangerRob: "You're a tool. Please please let what Talus claimed be true, so that I can stand out on the corner of Cragswood Road with a sign telling everyone who you are. I will also make a shit ton of loud man noises when I climb at the Sunbowl from now on"

RangerRob:" You sound arrogant now, the type of snooty, nose in the air landowner that owns a nice 5 acre lot bordering the preserve "

RangerRob:"Take your filed survey and stick it up your upper class nose."

RangerRob:"My basis for saying that it is currently acceptable to climb at Millbrook is based on the fact that many people do, no one stops them, it has been going on for a lot of years, and there are unportested guidebooks telling people they can climb there."

RangerRob:"I was told to cease and desist when I tried to derail this thread"

RangerRob:"I've said my peace. This whole issue does not deserve any more of my attention. The sooner it dissapears off this climbing website the better."

RangerRob:"I'm not stupid enough to accuse someone of illegal activities in a public forum AG."


And now You ask the following of The Mohonk Preserve Neighbors Association

"Have you ever considered allowing climbers access to your land for climbing purposes? Allowing access to some historic and quality climbing would put you and your organization in a better light, and would also give you a platform to reach out to those climbers in a non threatening manner."

Perhaps a rereading of the Access Fund guidelines is in order......
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#59624 - 08/14/11 02:15 PM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
For neighbors who have not read the original MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation thread, it is located in the general climbing section (around page 19 or so). It has to date generated over 28,000 views and is currently locked so adding content is not possible. It does contain maps, newspaper articles and other documents that might be of interest to you.

Thanks, MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#59640 - 08/15/11 12:02 AM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Advocacy group]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3764
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Advo, are you claiming that I now directly represent the Access Fund? What's your source?

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