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#59765 - 08/23/11 10:01 PM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Advocacy group]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
So, since 1960 they protected 7,000 acres and built on less than two.

That's what I take from what you've written.

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#59768 - 08/23/11 11:25 PM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Mark Heyman]
retroscree Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Additionally, they built a beautiful hotel, lovely and quaint carriage roads and walking paths, and Japanese architecture inspired gazebos scattered about for rest, contemplation, and reflection with spectacular views of nature. They also had the foresight to build a small village to house both owners and employees, eliminating a lot of commuting from the surrounding countryside. The major recent developments mentioned - ice rink, spa, and visitor center - were all judiciously kept within the core developed area of the resort and didn't disturb additional land. All in all it seems pretty well thought out.

Compare that with what it could have been - hundreds of little sub-divided lots replete with logging, quarrying, farming (which rather radically disrupts the land), shacks, barns, little houses on up to McMansions, all with their own water, septic, electric, and access roads - kind of like a lot of the Walkill valley and where AG lives.

I can't think of a stronger and more forceful commitment to conservation. What's more, the majority was accomplished at a time when much of America did not care about conservation.

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#59771 - 08/24/11 03:04 AM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: retroscree]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Retro, what do you have against timber harvesting? I think most rational people have come to the conclusion that managing an ecosystem means more then just preserving it. If one just preserves, then one ultimately destroys. Responsible, and indeed traditional management of forests includes disturbance, (timber harvesting). This not only allows for propagation of desired species, but increases biodiversity as a whole.

Besides, we need something to wipe our asses with.

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#59779 - 08/24/11 12:08 PM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: RangerRob]
Rickster Online   content
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 850
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Retro, what do you have against timber harvesting? I think most rational people have come to the conclusion that managing an ecosystem means more then just preserving it. If one just preserves, then one ultimately destroys. Responsible, and indeed traditional management of forests includes disturbance, (timber harvesting). This not only allows for propagation of desired species, but increases biodiversity as a whole.

Besides, we need something to wipe our asses with.


RR, I think what comes to mind for many folks when they hear the words, timber harvesting or lumbering, are the great swaths of clear cuts we've seen from many a summit throughout the western states and northern Maine. Not, the well thought out, sustainably selective harvesting that you describe and that we now see more often.

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#59783 - 08/24/11 02:02 PM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Rickster]
retroscree Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Exactly. I was talking about the scorched earth form of logging that leaves barren land in its wake.

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#59786 - 08/24/11 04:21 PM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: retroscree]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
I have to say - although I know they were installed before concerns about conservation and sustainability came into fashion, I'm particularly impressed with the carriage roads. Built to last!

Imagine how they'd be constructed today, or back in the 1970s .... asphalt, clear cutting to get the huge equipment in, and would need redone every 3 years, or somesuch.

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#59788 - 08/25/11 12:33 AM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Julie]
Rickster Online   content
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 850
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Originally Posted By: Julie
I have to say - although I know they were installed before concerns about conservation and sustainability came into fashion, I'm particularly impressed with the carriage roads. Built to last!

Imagine how they'd be constructed today, or back in the 1970s .... asphalt, clear cutting to get the huge equipment in, and would need redone every 3 years, or somesuch.


Just to be fair, they used some big ass steam driven machines to construct some of those carriage roads. However, you are right. If this was done new today, buy any public park entity, it'd be paved in some way. Probably a one way drive loop with multiple parking at the scenic overlooks.


Edited by Rickster (08/25/11 12:33 AM)

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#59794 - 08/25/11 03:47 AM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Lets take a look at some of the Smiley legacy in the Shawangunk mountains.

1869 Mountain house purchased (40 guest total)

1879-1910 Mohonk mountain house expanded to 266 guest rooms.

1879 Cliff house hotel open at lake minnewaska

1881 Cliff house hotel expanded to accomodate 225 guests

1887 Wildmere hotel opens at lake Minnewaska

1907 Smiley bros gives easement to NYC ($25,000)for aqueduct allowing the blasting of a crag and the clear cutting, mining of and entire mountain.

1911 Wildmere hotel expanded to accomodate 350 guests

1921 Smiley memorial tower built (Skytop) along with three miles of paths.

1926 5 tennis courts, golf course, baseball diamond and hundreds of Gazebos built at Minnewaska

1998 New $2.8 million 9200 sq. ft. Visitor Center built.

2001 9375sq. ft. refrigerated ice rink opens at Mohonk

2005 30,000 sq. ft. spa opens at Mohonk

2011 Ridge top Bridge across Mt Rest road.


Of course this is only a partial list. Don't forget about the old visitor center, the many houses that surround the mountain house hotel, the trailer park, the various mining operations, 80 miles of roads, sewage and water use and cleaning agents associated with the day to day functioning of a hotel, the land sold for development, the mountain house golf course, the gas easements, the electrical easements that scar the ridge etc... Hardly pristine, hardly conservation minded, hardly occurring only in 1869!

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#59795 - 08/25/11 03:54 AM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
From Mohonk Website:

"Mohonk Mountain House has been family owned since 1869 when Albert Smiley made his original purchase of 280 acres and a ten-room inn. Over a century later, in 1986, Mohonk Mountain House was named a National Historic Landmark. This designation was unique in that it encompassed not only the Mountain House but also 83 other Mohonk buildings"
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#59797 - 08/25/11 12:31 PM Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Lets take a look at some of the Smiley legacy in the Shawangunk mountains.

1869 Mountain house purchased (40 guest total)

1879-1910 Mohonk mountain house expanded to 266 guest rooms.

1879 Cliff house hotel open at lake minnewaska

1881 Cliff house hotel expanded to accomodate 225 guests

1887 Wildmere hotel opens at lake Minnewaska

1907 Smiley bros gives easement to NYC ($25,000)for aqueduct allowing the blasting of a crag and the clear cutting, mining of and entire mountain.

1911 Wildmere hotel expanded to accomodate 350 guests

1921 Smiley memorial tower built (Skytop) along with three miles of paths.

1926 5 tennis courts, golf course, baseball diamond and hundreds of Gazebos built at Minnewaska

1998 New $2.8 million 9200 sq. ft. Visitor Center built.

2001 9375sq. ft. refrigerated ice rink opens at Mohonk

2005 30,000 sq. ft. spa opens at Mohonk

2011 Ridge top Bridge across Mt Rest road.


Of course this is only a partial list. Don't forget about the old visitor center, the many houses that surround the mountain house hotel, the trailer park, the various mining operations, 80 miles of roads, sewage and water use and cleaning agents associated with the day to day functioning of a hotel, the land sold for development, the mountain house golf course, the gas easements, the electrical easements that scar the ridge etc... Hardly pristine, hardly conservation minded, hardly occurring only in 1869!

MPNA




Undercliff road was built in 1903 and Overcliff road in 1929 and each had to cut across a cliff face and boulder field to create the cross-slope carriage roads.
So here is an updated list.


1869 Mountain house purchased (40 guest total)

1879-1910 Mohonk mountain house expanded to 266 guest rooms.

1879 Cliff house hotel open at lake minnewaska

1881 Cliff house hotel expanded to accomodate 225 guests

1887 Wildmere hotel opens at lake Minnewaska

1903 Undercliff Road construction

1907 Smiley bros gives easement to NYC ($25,000)for aqueduct allowing the blasting of a crag and the clear cutting, mining of and entire mountain.

1911 Wildmere hotel expanded to accomodate 350 guests

1921 Smiley memorial tower built (Skytop) along with three miles of paths.

1926 5 tennis courts, golf course, baseball diamond and hundreds of Gazebos built at Minnewaska

1929 Overcliff Road Constructed

1998 New $2.8 million 9200 sq. ft. Visitor Center built.

2001 9375sq. ft. refrigerated ice rink opens at Mohonk

2005 30,000 sq. ft. spa opens at Mohonk

2011 Ridge top Bridge across Mt Rest road.
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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