Ah, Kent "gets it". AG... needs a sense of humor.

Chip, why is the reason important? Respecting a land closure should not be "difficult for climbers to understand". If someone closes their land, it's closed, end of discussion.
Respect it and move on to the thousands of other routes in the area. The kind of comments from Mike Rawdon and the actions of Trappdyke and the like will only ensure that more land closes. MPNA

"Ah, Kent "gets it". AG... needs a sense of humor."

Mike, please don't suggest I have a sense of humor. You might ruin my reputation.

When did Gunks.com become Supertopo.com?

Uh oh, look for a hostile takeover.

hey Chris, Want to elaborate on those restraining orders the Preserve needs to keep YOU from cutting down their trees, building fires and generally being a PITA?


That said, I have to give you credit for wanting to keep other discussions on thread. A lot of the initial irritation with the initial MPNA thread was precisely because it didn't belong in general climbing. Even you seem to be learning, so kudos.

I am sure that the fact that landowner have gained any traction at all with access closure is largely because the Preserve cooperates with them! Take my home for example, I can not stay home to police it and so have ATVs creating eroding my footpath and a small hill, and deal with human waste left by canoers. I can only wish I had the Preserve as a neighbor! Gunks landowners would have a much, much harder time dealing with the public directly.

How many users here wouldn't pay MORE for a home with the Preserve as their neighbor?

Mark, you are living in la la land. Some Mohonk Preserve members routinely trespass on private property and some of them also destroy private property and the MP does nothing to stop them.

And it's no wonder some MP members are so disrepectful of MP neighbors. Look at the Mohonk Preserve and the example they set: quit claim deeds, lawsuits, and zoning to strip development rights away from neighbors so targeted land is cheaper to buy. And now, the campground. The Mohonk Preserve has flipped the campground property to the PIPC specifically so they don't have to comply with state and town law, effectively shoving the campground down the throats of neighbors in that area.

The Mohonk Pre$erve. Saving the land, by screwing the neighbors, for life. (TM)

Edited to add:

I will add a caveat however. A few years ago Hank did call and ask about rerouting the Millbrook Ridge Trail off private land along the top of the Nears and Bayards. In several places it was rerouted but little is done to ensure MP members and guests follow the new routing and stay on MP land.

Please substantiate this charge.


Talk about living in fantasy land. Endless ranting about the same old 2 or 3 quit claim deeds, the same old 3 lawsuits, and the orchestration of zoning laws. Newsflash! The MP didn't vote in the zoning law - your neighbors did! The campground isn't on MP land, so it makes sense to hand it over to some other entity to manage. And it's not like there wasn't a campground in that vicinity, and the nearest neighbor is what, the distance of a football field away?


Man, nothing is ever good enough for you. You can probably solve all your angst by simply selling off your land that abuts the MP. Nah,....probably not...seems like you and AG are just bitter, old, scared men.

Retroscree aka MarcC, Mohonk Preserve members trespass frequently, tear down no trespassing signs, and remove barriers.

As for the campground, it was MP land. When it was MP land the MP tried to get a road cut permit from the NYDOT and couldn't. They tried to get a special use permit from the Town of Gardiner to build the campground but couldn't. The only reason the MP transferred ownership of the land to PIPC is because the PIPC is a sovereign entity not bound by NY State or Gardiner town law.

As usual instead of engaging in any kind of reasonable or constructive discussion you engage in ad hominem personal attacks.

Edited to add: I forgot to include a zoning rebuttal. The Mohonk Preserve was intimately involved in drafting language for the ridge zoning law.