Shout Box

Who's Online
1 registered (Rickster), 5 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 ... 10 11 >
Topic Options
#60249 - 09/19/11 02:07 AM Rope swing at the Gunks...
jsj42 Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 29
So I was just curious... does anyone know if there is a place in the Gunks to set up a massive rope swing... a lot of climbing areas I've been to have such a thing, but I've never seen or heard of one in the Gunks...

Top
#60253 - 09/19/11 02:37 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
We're still working on a zip line from the top of Mainline down to the Brau, but there is no swing set up anywhere that I know of.

Top
#60261 - 09/19/11 04:10 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
How about a zipline to traverse the closed section of Near Trapps without technically setting foot on it? Now THAT would be neat.

Top
#60262 - 09/19/11 04:21 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: Mike Rawdon
How about a zipline to traverse the closed section of Near Trapps without technically setting foot on it? Now THAT would be neat.


pretty pathetic Mike. As a guide you would think you would want to maintain good reations with Mohonk Neighbors and have access continued. I'm sure when Cliff owning neighbors read this it will not help in keeping the areas that you want to climb on open. In the future when more access is denied you can bet your comments will be brought up. MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#60266 - 09/19/11 04:56 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Advocacy group]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Why would a guide want to maintain any relations with a landowner who didn't even allow unobtrusive passage across the back of their property?


Edited by Mark Heyman (09/19/11 04:57 PM)

Top
#60267 - 09/19/11 05:00 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mark Heyman]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: Mark Heyman
Why would a guide want to maintain any relations with a landowner who didn't even allow unobtrusive passage across the back of their property?


really?
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#60271 - 09/19/11 05:33 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mark Heyman]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Originally Posted By: Mark Heyman
Why would a guide want to maintain any relations with a landowner who didn't even allow unobtrusive passage across the back of their property?

Mark, the Access Fund website has helpful insights on how to interact with private landowners including those who don't allow access to their land. The basic idea is by respecting the landowner's wishes climbers are building a constructive relationship that may lead to access in the future or the sale of the land to a climber friendly organization. By disrespecting landowners climbers assure no legal access and jeopardize any future sale to a climber friendly organization.

This seems like common sense and common courtesy but apparently not here in New York.

Top
#60272 - 09/19/11 05:37 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Originally Posted By: Mike Rawdon
How about a zipline to traverse the closed section of Near Trapps without technically setting foot on it? Now THAT would be neat.

Air rights will be protected under UN Resolution S/RES/1983 (2011) allowing the use of surface to air missiles against an aggressor to protect sovereignty.

Top
#60273 - 09/19/11 05:45 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: Kent
Originally Posted By: Mike Rawdon
How about a zipline to traverse the closed section of Near Trapps without technically setting foot on it? Now THAT would be neat.

Air rights will be protected under UN Resolution S/RES/1983 (2011) allowing the use of surface to air missiles against an aggressor to protect sovereignty.


SAM's are pretty hard to come by in the US. It would be easier and cheaper to have a spike board awaiting at the landing or someplace in the middle. Cheap, effective and the vultures will clean up said air trespasser in a jiffy. Of course all of this is purely hypothetical as violence is just plain wrong.
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#60274 - 09/19/11 05:54 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Kent, I have to admit that I feel the vast majority of climbers have alwyas been very respectful to the land owners whose land they have crossed, knowingly or unknowingly, and yet the access to continue doing so was removed by the landowner. The reaction to close this land continues to be directed at those who are unlikely to generate any change to the initial beef and generally did not cause the conflict. This is why climbers continue to have difficulty understanding why they should then react with respect to the closure. I don't want to stir this up again and certainly agree that someone should always have the right to prevent others from crossing property they own. I have respected this closure from the start. I just wanted to express my perception of why this situation is not percieved as appropriate to the climbers.

Top
#60275 - 09/19/11 05:55 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Originally Posted By: Kent
Originally Posted By: Mike Rawdon
How about a zipline to traverse the closed section of Near Trapps without technically setting foot on it? Now THAT would be neat.

Air rights will be protected under UN Resolution S/RES/1983 (2011) allowing the use of surface to air missiles against an aggressor to protect sovereignty.


Ah, Kent "gets it". AG... needs a sense of humor.

Top
#60276 - 09/19/11 06:02 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: chip]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: chip
Kent, I have to admit that I feel the vast majority of climbers have alwyas been very respectful to the land owners whose land they have crossed, knowingly or unknowingly, and yet the access to continue doing so was removed by the landowner. The reaction to close this land continues to be directed at those who are unlikely to generate any change to the initial beef and generally did not cause the conflict. This is why climbers continue to have difficulty understanding why they should then react with respect to the closure. I don't want to stir this up again and certainly agree that someone should always have the right to prevent others from crossing property they own. I have respected this closure from the start. I just wanted to express my perception of why this situation is not percieved as appropriate to the climbers.


Chip, why is the reason important? Respecting a land closure should not be "difficult for climbers to understand". If someone closes their land, it's closed, end of discussion.
Respect it and move on to the thousands of other routes in the area. The kind of comments from Mike Rawdon and the actions of Trappdyke and the like will only ensure that more land closes. MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#60277 - 09/19/11 06:13 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
"Ah, Kent "gets it". AG... needs a sense of humor."

Mike, please don't suggest I have a sense of humor. You might ruin my reputation.

Top
#60281 - 09/19/11 10:28 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
jsj42 Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 29
When did Gunks.com become Supertopo.com?

Top
#60282 - 09/19/11 10:56 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5969
Loc: 212 land
Originally Posted By: jsj42
When did Gunks.com become Supertopo.com?


Uh oh, look for a hostile takeover.
_________________________

Top
#60284 - 09/19/11 11:23 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Advocacy group]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 319
hey Chris, Want to elaborate on those restraining orders the Preserve needs to keep YOU from cutting down their trees, building fires and generally being a PITA?
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group


Chip, why is the reason important? Respecting a land closure should not be "difficult for climbers to understand". If someone closes their land, it's closed, end of discussion.


That said, I have to give you credit for wanting to keep other discussions on thread. A lot of the initial irritation with the initial MPNA thread was precisely because it didn't belong in general climbing. Even you seem to be learning, so kudos.

Top
#60305 - 09/20/11 04:55 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Advocacy group]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
I am sure that the fact that landowner have gained any traction at all with access closure is largely because the Preserve cooperates with them! Take my home for example, I can not stay home to police it and so have ATVs creating eroding my footpath and a small hill, and deal with human waste left by canoers. I can only wish I had the Preserve as a neighbor! Gunks landowners would have a much, much harder time dealing with the public directly.

How many users here wouldn't pay MORE for a home with the Preserve as their neighbor?

Top
#60306 - 09/20/11 05:32 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mark Heyman]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Mark, you are living in la la land. Some Mohonk Preserve members routinely trespass on private property and some of them also destroy private property and the MP does nothing to stop them.

And it's no wonder some MP members are so disrepectful of MP neighbors. Look at the Mohonk Preserve and the example they set: quit claim deeds, lawsuits, and zoning to strip development rights away from neighbors so targeted land is cheaper to buy. And now, the campground. The Mohonk Preserve has flipped the campground property to the PIPC specifically so they don't have to comply with state and town law, effectively shoving the campground down the throats of neighbors in that area.

The Mohonk Pre$erve. Saving the land, by screwing the neighbors, for life. (TM)

Edited to add:

I will add a caveat however. A few years ago Hank did call and ask about rerouting the Millbrook Ridge Trail off private land along the top of the Nears and Bayards. In several places it was rerouted but little is done to ensure MP members and guests follow the new routing and stay on MP land.


Edited by Kent (09/20/11 05:37 PM)

Top
#60307 - 09/20/11 06:02 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: Kent
...and some of them also destroy private property and the MP does nothing to stop them.

Please substantiate this charge.

Originally Posted By: Kent
And it's no wonder some MP members are so disrepectful of MP neighbors. Look at the Mohonk Preserve and the example they set: quit claim deeds, lawsuits, and zoning to strip development rights away from neighbors so targeted land is cheaper to buy. And now, the campground. The Mohonk Preserve has flipped the campground property to the PIPC specifically so they don't have to comply with state and town law, effectively shoving the campground down the throats of neighbors in that area.

Talk about living in fantasy land. Endless ranting about the same old 2 or 3 quit claim deeds, the same old 3 lawsuits, and the orchestration of zoning laws. Newsflash! The MP didn't vote in the zoning law - your neighbors did! The campground isn't on MP land, so it makes sense to hand it over to some other entity to manage. And it's not like there wasn't a campground in that vicinity, and the nearest neighbor is what, the distance of a football field away?

Originally Posted By: Kent
I will add a caveat however. A few years ago Hank did call and ask about rerouting the Millbrook Ridge Trail off private land along the top of the Nears and Bayards. In several places it was rerouted but little is done to ensure MP members and guests follow the new routing and stay on MP land.

Man, nothing is ever good enough for you. You can probably solve all your angst by simply selling off your land that abuts the MP. Nah,....probably not...seems like you and AG are just bitter, old, scared men.


Edited by retroscree (09/20/11 06:04 PM)

Top
#60308 - 09/20/11 06:34 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: retroscree]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Retroscree aka MarcC, Mohonk Preserve members trespass frequently, tear down no trespassing signs, and remove barriers.

As for the campground, it was MP land. When it was MP land the MP tried to get a road cut permit from the NYDOT and couldn't. They tried to get a special use permit from the Town of Gardiner to build the campground but couldn't. The only reason the MP transferred ownership of the land to PIPC is because the PIPC is a sovereign entity not bound by NY State or Gardiner town law.

As usual instead of engaging in any kind of reasonable or constructive discussion you engage in ad hominem personal attacks.

Edited to add: I forgot to include a zoning rebuttal. The Mohonk Preserve was intimately involved in drafting language for the ridge zoning law.


Edited by Kent (09/20/11 06:36 PM)

Top
#60310 - 09/20/11 07:24 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Again, I completely believe we should respect any property owner's wishes about their own land. In terms of the re-routed blue trail, it was nice that you recognised the effort that was made. I do not know what else the preserve could have done other than posting rangers every 100 feet for the entire year to keep hikers off someone else's land. The trail changes were marked with yellow plastic tape and re-posted for the first year or so as the tape came down. It was hard to miss the many, many yellow signs that were posted in the middle of no where to tell us where we could or could not walk. I personally felt rising anger as to how many signs were posted, especially on top of and on every side of one poor glacial eratic boulder. The Preserve could have sought a different tact to legally presrve an historic pathway/access. It looked like a pretty big olive branch was extended.

Top
#60311 - 09/20/11 07:28 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: chip]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Chip, it would be very easy for the Preserve to post a ranger at one point, the beginning of Nears closure, until their members got the message. They haven't.

Top
#60313 - 09/20/11 07:43 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 709
Loc: NYC
What this thread needs is some Don Perry action. Only he can out-troll the trolls.
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

Top
#60315 - 09/20/11 09:15 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
I recall getting an email alert when the Nears closure occurred, both from the GCC, and also from the Mohonk Preserve itself. That email includecd a link to this page(of course, there a re more recent alerts atop that one, which is dated 4/13/09, and viewable about halfway down page.

http://www.mohonkpreserve.org/index.php?news

It might have been "easy" to post a ranger at the start of Nears, but would it have been a reasonably effective use of donors funds to use a paid ranger in such a way?

Now, perhaps it *might* have occurred to the Volunteer Coordinator to ask for people to do that service... but I am not sure expecting someone to get that idea at that time would be reasonable.

However, now that I have thought of it, Kent, perhaps it is something the supporters of MPNA might want to consider doing. If they aren't preserve members, I think they could reasonably stand on the side near road without worry of accessing the land without membership/day pass.

They could simply say something like "Hi there! Just wanted to let you know there is a small section of the trail/cliff face which is closed to use. It's clearly marked, so easy enough to notice as you come upon it. As a representative of the (MPNA, AG or whatever), we hope you will respect that closure."

Top
#60316 - 09/20/11 09:56 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: TerrieM]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Terrie, MPNA has nothing whatsoever to do with the closed section of the Nears. That is not their fight. They've never claimed it to be their fight. I just wanted to point that out.

Additionally, what does all of this have to do wuth a rope swing??

Top
#60317 - 09/20/11 10:23 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: RangerRob]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5969
Loc: 212 land
Additionally, what does all of this have to do wuth a rope swing??

Isn't it amazing that only the initial post referred to that and most of the rest of the thread is devoted to squabbling?
_________________________

Top
#60318 - 09/20/11 10:33 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: oenophore]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Squabbling. A new route right next to Welcome To The Gunks.

Top
#60319 - 09/20/11 10:37 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: TerrieM]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Terrie, that's not a bad idea but it's really the Mohonk Preserve's responsibility to keep their members and guests off adjoining private land if there is a problem.

And RR is right, the closure in The Nears has never been AG/MPNA's subject.

Top
#60321 - 09/20/11 11:46 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: oenophore]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 319
Well, at least we're squabbling in the right place. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?

Originally Posted By: oenophore
Additionally, what does all of this have to do wuth a rope swing??

Isn't it amazing that only the initial post referred to that and most of the rest of the thread is devoted to squabbling?

Top
#60322 - 09/21/11 03:24 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: ianmanger]
jsj42 Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 29
Last time I try to get a question answered on this forum.

Ed. to add: And I thought east coast climbers were BETTER in this regard than climbers out west...


Edited by jsj42 (09/21/11 03:25 AM)

Top
#60324 - 09/21/11 04:46 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
Aya Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 754
Loc: Climbing somewhere
hang on a second... are MPNA and AG different people?
_________________________
Gunks T-Shirts!

Top
#60327 - 09/21/11 01:58 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Aya]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
To the OP, I know of no quality rope swing potential on Preserve property. I have seen some set up on the Walkill River over the years but can't remember where the deeper holes were. A walk/wade down the river might open some possibilities. What you really need is a lake with steep banks and trees that hang out over the water. I miss the great one at the Raquette Lake bluffs.

Top
#60333 - 09/21/11 03:54 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: chip]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 319
Actually Chip, think the OP has something like this in mind. Better views in one of the Masters of Stone series. No rivers necessary.


Originally Posted By: chip
To the OP, I know of no quality rope swing potential on Preserve property. I have seen some set up on the Walkill River over the years but can't remember where the deeper holes were. A walk/wade down the river might open some possibilities. What you really need is a lake with steep banks and trees that hang out over the water. I miss the great one at the Raquette Lake bluffs.

Top
#60334 - 09/21/11 04:15 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Originally Posted By: Kent
Terrie, that's not a bad idea but it's really the Mohonk Preserve's responsibility to keep their members and guests off adjoining private land if there is a problem.

And RR is right, the closure in The Nears has never been AG/MPNA's subject.


Do you really believe posting a clear message and emailing it directly is insufficient? What more is reasonable('reasonable' being a key word) to expect? You have the cameras, as you say - is it a vast percentage of preserve users that are trespassing across the boundary in question? How many, would you say, on a given weekend, and what percentage of preserve users for similar day use does that represent?

My bad in mixing up that closure with the MPNA; it gets confusing for me at times. But, if the land is owned by a member of the MPNA, then maybe the MPNA might want to consider offering to volunteer to do that education... just a suggestion, of course. I do, of course, believe it would not be reasonable to expect the particular landowner to do that, or even you Kent as the representative who facilitated that closure.


Top
#60336 - 09/21/11 04:34 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: Kent
Terrie, that's not a bad idea but it's really the Mohonk Preserve's responsibility to keep their members and guests off adjoining private land if there is a problem.

I disagree. If the landowner is that upset about people wandering onto his property from adjoining lands, it is his prerogative on how to address it - posting it as no trespass, property line markers, fences, etc. It is not the responsibility of the adjoining landowner.

Top
#60337 - 09/21/11 04:36 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: TerrieM]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Terrie, I don't understand who you are suggesting I email. All Mohonk Preserve members? I'd love to but I doubt they will part with that information.

As for the number of people trespassing in the Nears, it's significant.

And it is the Mohonk Preserve's responsibility to keep their members and guests from trespassing. I'm not talking about the occasional and unintentional wandering off onto someone else's property but rather willful, knowing, and systematic trespassing, of which the Mohonk Preerve is very aware.

Top
#60338 - 09/21/11 04:39 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: retroscree]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Rope swings people....rope swings! You folks are like stoned high schoolers fixating on shiny objects.

Top
#60340 - 09/21/11 05:02 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: Kent
And it is the Mohonk Preserve's responsibility to keep their members and guests from trespassing. I'm not talking about the occasional and unintentional wandering off onto someone else's property but rather willful, knowing, and systematic trespassing, of which the Mohonk Preerve is very aware.

Sorry. NY State trespass law disagrees with you, too.

Top
#60341 - 09/21/11 05:07 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: retroscree]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
If they want to get along with their neighbors Marc they will conduct themselves in a neighborly way.

Top
#60343 - 09/21/11 05:16 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: Kent
If they want to get along with their neighbors Marc they will conduct themselves in a neighborly way.

That's a very different statement than saying that they have the responsibility to prevent trespass. The latter, your original statement, is merely your opinion.

Top
#60347 - 09/21/11 05:29 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: retroscree]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
As I'm the one who gets to decide whether or not the Nears reopens it's an opinion perhaps worth considering.

Edited to add:
And responsibilities aren't limited to those required by law.


Edited by Kent (09/21/11 05:30 PM)

Top
#60348 - 09/21/11 06:21 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Originally Posted By: Kent
Terrie, I don't understand who you are suggesting I email. All Mohonk Preserve members? I'd love to but I doubt they will part with that information.


No. I had posted that before, when the closure went into, I recieved a form/formal email explaining the closure, with a link to the Mohonk Preserve website page announcement of that closure. I asked you "Do you really believe posting a clear message and emailing it directly is insufficient? What more is reasonable('reasonable' being a key word) to expect?"

I'm not quite sure as to how you can misinterprate that to suggest YOU should be emailing anyone!

Originally Posted By: Kent
As for the number of people trespassing in the Nears, it's significant.


I would prefer if you could quantify that. For a person feeling one is too many, than two is significant - even ONE is significant! Give us an idea - Is it 10 a day, round trip 20? 25 a day, round trip 50? 50 a day? And, the ratio to average number of visitors would be important to add perspective on how much of a priority a (non-biased) person would consider...reasonable....to warrant the preserve allocating funds/personnel/volunteers to addressing by posting a sentry.

As for you "being the one to open access" - Kent, my opinion is that you are too far gone with feelings of having been abused in some way to ever open that access. I don't know the people whose land it is, but I truly hope they are aware of the representation you are providing for them. It still upsets me that you were willing to portray those people as eating dog food to survive, when it turned out that was not the case at all. I find it hard to believe that a reasonable person would be aware you are portraying them so and want to continue that relationship in a public way.

Top
#60349 - 09/21/11 06:30 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: TerrieM]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Terrie, either intentionally or unintentionally you are mixing things up and misrepresenting what I've said. As such, I'm not going to respond.

Edited to add: I never ever said the people who own the Near Trapps land that is closed were going to be eating cat food. That's just one example. I'm not going to parse it all out.


Edited by Kent (09/21/11 06:32 PM)

Top
#60350 - 09/21/11 07:50 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
I quite distinctly recall posting that if this person you were referring to was in as desperate enough a situation that they were relying on pet food as nourishment(which was in response to a post you had made suggesting they were), they we should step up and begin a fundraising campaign to assist.

Then, you came back and said something like "well, not really eating pet food..." And I called you out in disgust at that time, asking if that person was aware you were portraying them in such a way.

Top
#60351 - 09/21/11 07:54 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: TerrieM]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
You have a faulty memory Terrie.

Top
#60352 - 09/21/11 08:54 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
It's interesting that I wrote "dog food" and in your response you used "cat food" instead.

I spent some time searching at rc.com for the specific thread. Unfortunately I have a zillion and a half posts over there and not the time to sort through.

But using the term "cat food" here on Gunks.com, I did find one reference, and though the post that the reference is for does not appear to exist in that thread.... at least one other person mentions it:
Thread url: http://gunks.com/ubbthreads7/ubbthreads....osure#Post44026

Post # 169. Last sentence.

I believe the conversation about your concern for the "cat food guy" was actually on rc.com and not here on Gunks.com. And maybe my memory IS faulty at times, but in this case - I don't think so.

Top
#60353 - 09/21/11 09:02 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: TerrieM]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Memory is malleable. So everyone's memory is fallible. That's the way memory works.

At the time I intentionally disguised the identity of the person I was talking about, not their circumstances. And I did so to protect their privacy, not as some kind of ruse. I never in any way indicated it was the owner of the land that is closed in the Near Trapps.

Top
#60354 - 09/21/11 09:08 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: TerrieM]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
In this thread on Supertopo, Kent, posting as Caped Crusader wrote on Apr 8 2009:

Quote:
I'll try to put it in a more succinct and human way. Because of the zoning law, one retired landowner, who was counting on being able to sell his land to fund the latter part of his retirement, if he lived that long, may well be shopping for his groceries in the pet food aisle.

Top
#60358 - 09/21/11 10:12 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: retroscree]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
And your point is?

Top
#60364 - 09/21/11 11:03 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
An attempt to clear up the confusion about who said what and why some might have the very valid feeling from 2 years ago that your posts definitely implied that the owner of the Nears land either was or soon will be eating canned pet food.

Top
#60366 - 09/21/11 11:15 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: retroscree]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
I appreciate the clarity. I believe you'll find nothing in my remarks over the years which implies the Nears closure landowner was the one at risk of being in dire financial straits.

It's immaterial anyway. Does it matter which landowner it is? No.


Edited by Kent (09/21/11 11:16 PM)

Top
#60383 - 09/22/11 08:59 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
jsj42 Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 29
Yes, like the Porch Swing or the Alcove Swing.

Man, I hope I run into one of you out west and have the opportunity to offer you beta for a climb or area. That'll be fun.*

*But then, I guess that would be predicated upon you guys actually climbing and not just talking sh#t at the brewpub all day long.

Top
#60384 - 09/22/11 10:20 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5969
Loc: 212 land
Ah jsj42, no use getting pissed off just because a hair trigger got pulled and the thread drifted far from what you intended. Note that your question got answered albeit late in the thread.
_________________________

Top
#60385 - 09/22/11 12:31 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Back to the original question - how about flying off the GT Ledge on a rope anchored above the Twilight Zone roof? That would be quite a swing. Might have to climb up off the ledge a bit though.

Top
#60394 - 09/22/11 05:10 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Originally Posted By: Kent
You have a faulty memory Terrie.


Hmmm, mine has the exact same faults!

Top
#60395 - 09/22/11 05:17 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Originally Posted By: Kent
As I'm the one who gets to decide whether or not the Nears reopens it's an opinion perhaps worth considering.


Then simply ingform us of your terms, adnwe can decide (individually) if we want to acquiesce!

(Actually my flawed memory remembers your previous terms as being laughable.)

Top
#60397 - 09/22/11 05:53 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mark Heyman]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Mark, try to find a quote where I said or implied the Nears landowner was going to be in dire financial straits. You won't be able to because I never said that, or implied it.

Top
#60398 - 09/22/11 06:19 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: Kent
Mark, try to find a quote where I said or implied the Nears landowner was going to be in dire financial straits. You won't be able to because I never said that, or implied it.

The thing is, if you look through the threads here, on rc.com, and the topo, there have been more than a few people who came away with that impression. So intentional or not, factual or not, your posts did directly imply that the Nears landowner might well be eating from the pet food aisle.

Top
#60399 - 09/22/11 06:26 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: retroscree]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Please quote Marc.

Top
#60401 - 09/22/11 06:55 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: retroscree]
Doug Offline
member

Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 176
Originally Posted By: retroscree
Originally Posted By: Kent
Mark, try to find a quote where I said or implied the Nears landowner was going to be in dire financial straits. You won't be able to because I never said that, or implied it.

The thing is, if you look through the threads here, on rc.com, and the topo, there have been more than a few people who came away with that impression. So intentional or not, factual or not, your posts did directly imply that the Nears landowner might well be eating from the pet food aisle.


You are perhaps tap dancing on the specifics of "Nears landowner" versus landowner? You did mention a retired landowner possibly having to eat pet food some day in the Supertopo thread on the Nears/Bayards land closures where you protrayed yourself as a champion of the old folks agains the big bully preserve. Specifically Aya noted that the Nears closure seemed pointless, and that she was having trouble sympathizing with the landowner. You replied with an example of a retired landowner possibly having to eat from the pet food aisle because of the zoning law.

Originally Posted By: kent on supertopo
I'll try to put it in a more succinct and human way. Because of the zoning law, one retired landowner, who was counting on being able to sell his land to fund the latter part of his retirement, if he lived that long, may well be shopping for his groceries in the pet food aisle.

Doesn't that upset anyone beside me?


Seems like you implied it, or at least conflated this appeal to emotion with the Nears closure Aya was talking about.

Top
#60402 - 09/22/11 07:17 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Doug]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
I didn't state, imply, or conflate. In any group of readers there will be those who misinterpret, especially in an online environment.

It still doesn't matter where the individual lives along the ridge.

Top
#60405 - 09/22/11 08:26 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: Kent
I didn't state, imply, or conflate. In any group of readers there will be those who misinterpret, especially in an online environment.

That is precisely what you did, even if you didn't intend to do so. If you feel a bunch of people misinterpreted what you wrote, then it's your writing that wasn't clear.

Originally Posted By: Kent
It still doesn't matter where the individual lives along the ridge.

Well, actually, it does - because you pandered to emotions by playing the pet food card in a thread specifically about the closure by an unidentified landowner of a tiny section of the Nears - without clarifying that pet food guy was not the Nears landowner and actually not eating pet food. You eventually did so, but only after you were called on the validity of the statement. That's pretty much the definition of implication and conflation.

Top
#60409 - 09/22/11 09:11 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: retroscree]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Marc, you're not going to interpret anything I say in a balanced way. So like DP, I'm not going to bother.

Top
#60411 - 09/22/11 09:22 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Kent - where on this thread did I(boldface, italic "I"), write that the Nears closed land owner and the pet food eater" were the same person?

Top
#60412 - 09/22/11 09:30 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: TerrieM]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
I'm going to let you guys chase your own tails.

Top
#60415 - 09/22/11 09:53 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Rickster Online   content
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 847
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Originally Posted By: Mike Rawdon
Back to the original question - how about flying off the GT Ledge on a rope anchored above the Twilight Zone roof? That would be quite a swing. Might have to climb up off the ledge a bit though.


You could ask the Vulgaires about launching off the top of Twilight Zone. Goldline, perlon, the ropes had to be tested somehow! Long before Dan Ozman, RIP.

Otherwise, the swing from underneath is a mighty big one.

Top
#60417 - 09/22/11 10:11 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Rickster]
Aya Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 754
Loc: Climbing somewhere
Kent, did you check back to see what you wrote? In a thread about the Nears closure - when I asked what the closure in the nears accomplished when the vast majority of gunks climbers were completely ignorant of the changes in zoning laws, the existence of the GCC etc., you replied

Quote:
'll try to put it in a more succinct and human way. Because of the zoning law, one retired landowner, who was counting on being able to sell his land to fund the latter part of his retirement, if he lived that long, may well be shopping for his groceries in the pet food aisle.


nowhere did we talk about OTHER land owners. This was in a thread about teh nears closure. I admit that I thought you were talking about the landowners in the nears, too - and not because of any "biased" opinion.

But who cares, it is stupid to "debate" what or what was not sad two years ago. yeesh.
_________________________
Gunks T-Shirts!

Top
#60419 - 09/22/11 10:13 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Originally Posted By: Kent
I'm going to let you guys chase your own tails.


It was a serious question, Kent. The thread is nowhere near as long nor as old as the ones WE had to dig through to show where your memory was faulty. We wasted a lot of time to find that BS. The reason you want to "let us chase our own tails": is because you probably are aware that I did NOT actually say the Nears landowner and cat food person were one and the same. Form the post I had made mentioning the pet food, I had written about the Nears closure just the sentence before. So.... it might SEEM like I IMPLIED such was the case, when in fact it wasn't.

But I think it is much less clear that I was suggesting the two were the same person than it is for those of us who remember your "neighbor" to not have though you were suggesting the two were the same.

And with that - I am also done with the topic.


Rope Swing - OP, we got no deep water, like someone said. But that doesn't mean there isn't deep doo doo rampant on Gunks.com. Come on! Swing Over! But watch the landing - it's a bit messy....

Top
#60422 - 09/22/11 10:31 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
tradjunkie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 365
OK Kent,

I laid off after you explained you were representing victims of the tyranny of the majority as far as gains and losses accruing from the new zoning laws, which I think is a fair argument regardless of whether one agrees with it or not. But now I think you need to own up to being disingenuous about the whole pet food thing - if not historically, then now. Clearly people were misled, whether you intended it or not.

I don't think I posted back then, and wish I had the data to hand, now, some sad statistics. These poor wretched folks relying on their land to fund their retirement after age 75....well, the discussions were around monetizing a few hundred thousand dollars worth of their land as their nest egg, assuming they could find a buyer at such a price even if zoning allowed, versus a reduced price now. The only data I can google quickly is according to the EBRI, around the time of that whole conversation (2009), only 12% of retirees had nest eggs of $250k or more (savings & investments apart from primary residence). Add in a few years of spending in retirement and by age 75 it is not looking good for most people as that nest egg gets depleted.

It pains me to say it, but any retired landowner with a couple hundred grand worth of surplus land as a nest egg (regardless of ease of sale or whether the first digit is a 2 or a 5) could be looked upon as a fat cat by the other 90% of Americans who don't have such a privilege. I do not intend for this suddenly to become a policitized thread about how we as a nation are failing to provide savings for ourselves in our later years - if anyone feels a need to pontificate on that, please start a new thread elsewhere.

Does one feel pity for those poor people in the top 10 or 15% by wealth?

Is pity relative?

Top
#60423 - 09/22/11 10:35 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: tradjunkie]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
I wasn't disingenuous in the least.

And TJ you might think it's ok to take from this guy what little he has. That's the crux of the conflict. People who are willing to contribute little expect others to contribute a great deal, against their will.

The burden should be shared.

And pity? F pity. He deserves respect.

Edited to add: TJ, I challenge you to come with me and visit this landowner, and then come back here and tell everyone how wealthy you think they are, and how you think it's ok to take from them.



Edited by Kent (09/22/11 11:00 PM)

Top
#60428 - 09/22/11 11:13 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Holy Fuck people......rope swings!!! You guys have the attention span of fleas.

Mike, That would quite the King Swing. However, you would either need a tether to be pulled back into the cliff, or know how to prussik to get out of the predicament.

Top
#60437 - 09/23/11 01:52 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: RangerRob]
Rickster Online   content
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 847
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
No prusik, just a tag line and pull yourself back into the ledge. It's worked before.

Top
#60442 - 09/23/11 04:21 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
tradjunkie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 365
Originally Posted By: Kent
I wasn't disingenuous in the least.

If you weren't then, then you are now, by not admitting that a number of people were misled and taking responsibility for not having been clear.

Originally Posted By: Kent

And TJ you might think it's ok to take from this guy what little he has. That's the crux of the conflict. People who are willing to contribute little expect others to contribute a great deal, against their will.

I am not saying it's OK to take from either the rich or the poor. I don't believe either should be preyed upon, be it the old man who failed to listen to the basics of financial planning by placing all his eggs into one basket (find me a financial advisor in Ulster County who recommends a nest egg consisting solely of spare property], or the big bad well-funded Mohonk Preserve as you so often attempt to portray it. I am merely pointing out that perspectives are inherently subjective.

Originally Posted By: Kent

Edited to add: TJ, I challenge you to come with me and visit this landowner, and then come back here and tell everyone how wealthy you think they are, and how you think it's ok to take from them.

Kent, I'd be happy to visit if a suitable time can be arranged, but if you read my postings more carefully you'd note that I am highlighting only the RELATIVE position of such a nest egg ($250k gets you $1500/month of annuitized income from AARP partner firms, though those tend not to be the best deals) - only that a measly 18 grand a year to live on is MORE THAN what 90% of American retirees can expect from their nest egg (hm - food or medications or rent this month?), and that as I just repeated I have not advocated for confiscation of property, and certainly never by class or wealth level.

I do still get your point about all the people clustered closer to town reaping the benefits of the zoning at the expense of those on the ridge. I happen to think that that creates a better result (European village style) long run but I understand that the transition creates pain, unequally shared, and the losers have a point.

Apologies for any incoherence, I should have gone to bed long ago. Anyway, I only hope that I have both irked you enough to trigger further elaboration from you, but brought a smile to your face somewhere along the way...

And for those innocent bystanders annoyed that I am continuing the thread drift, I only offer this: the Rosendale trestle bridge on the rail trail. Anchor, access, water landing. 'Nuff said?

Top
#60445 - 09/23/11 01:32 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: tradjunkie]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
Originally Posted By: tradjunkie
And for those innocent bystanders annoyed that I am continuing the thread drift, I only offer this: the Rosendale trestle bridge on the rail trail. Anchor, access, water landing. 'Nuff said?


Jordan Mills proposed a bungee jumping business on the trestle in the 80s. Rosendale shot it down.
_________________________
Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

Top
#60447 - 09/23/11 03:09 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: tradjunkie]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
TJ, disingenuous means intentionally deceptive. It seems now as if you are saying if I'm not willing to admit I was being intentionally deceptive back then, then I'm being intentionally deceptive now. I was not intentionally deceptive then and am not now. Am I a perfect messenger? Of course not. Am I always perfectly understood? Also of course not. That doesn't mean I'm disingenuous.

Regarding conclusions about the relative "wealth" (heavy sarcasm intended) of the person I've invited you to visit, and the impact of the zoning law on them, perhaps it would be better for you to wait until after you visit.

Top
#60450 - 09/23/11 04:35 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
jsj42 Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 29
Who said anything about needing water?

The Twilight Zone idea sounds like a good place to start. And what kind of climber doesn't know how to prussik? But I highly suspect a tag for hauling in or rapping down would be easier.


Edited by jsj42 (09/23/11 04:38 PM)

Top
#60451 - 09/23/11 04:42 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
tradjunkie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 365
Originally Posted By: Kent
TJ, disingenuous means intentionally deceptive. It seems now as if you are saying if I'm not willing to admit I was being intentionally deceptive back then, then I'm being intentionally deceptive now. I was not intentionally deceptive then and am not now. Am I a perfect messenger? Of course not. Am I always perfectly understood? Also of course not. That doesn't mean I'm disingenuous.

Thanks. I only hoped that you would apologize for any confusion. Close enough for me, though I can't speak for anyone else here.

Originally Posted By: Kent

Regarding conclusions about the relative "wealth" (heavy sarcasm intended) of the person I've invited you to visit, and the impact of the zoning law on them, perhaps it would be better for you to wait until after you visit.

Heavy sarcasm shared by me, too, in case you haven't noticed. I think we see eye to eye on that one.

Top
#60453 - 09/23/11 06:13 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: jsj42
The Twilight Zone idea sounds like a good place to start. And what kind of climber doesn't know how to prussik?

You'd be surprised! And since it's a specific stunt, why bother with prusiks? Just bring along a set of real ascenders (or an ascender and a gri-gri).

Without a doubt though, the tag line is probably the best solution - it's what's used on the Alcove Swing on El Cap, since going to the anchors on that after the swing is pointless (it's the P3 anchor on South Seas). On the Gunks TZ, it might make sense for the last person to jug to the top to remove the setup.

Top
#60459 - 09/23/11 08:09 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: retroscree]
charliebutters Offline
addict

Registered: 11/11/01
Posts: 510
Loc: accord
was at l.c. bouldering last saturday and overheard some hikers astounded by the "trapese" someone had set up from "cliff to cliff!"

Top
#60460 - 09/23/11 08:51 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: charliebutters]
Rickster Online   content
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 847
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
On TZ, depending on how you set the lines, some rope protecting edge padding would be advisable as well. The lines are going to ride that north facing edge. The east facing edge would not offer the best ride and faces away around the corner from the "launch pad" ledge.

Top
#60462 - 09/23/11 09:50 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Rickster]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: Rickster
On TZ, depending on how you set the lines, some rope protecting edge padding would be advisable as well.

Good advice for any of these rope swings. For example, the reason for rigging the Alcove Swing on P3 of South Seas and not P2 is the latter has a rope slicing flake that cannot be padded and has unavoidable rope contact during the swing.

Top
#60463 - 09/23/11 09:57 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: retroscree]
Rickster Online   content
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 847
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
"....has a rope slicing flake..."

Nothing that severe on TZ but, the edge the rope would most likely go over for a nice long swing is parallel to the trajectory. The rope would most likely ride that edge back and forth some. Of course, this is a lot talk and prep for a big kiddy ride.

Top
#60473 - 09/24/11 05:41 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Rickster]
jsj42 Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 29
Actually, this is 9 pages of BS and only a few posts regarding the kiddie ride. The great thing about the Alcove Swing, and a particular swing I discovered in Eldorado Canyon a few years back, is that the slab take-off zone serves as a nice LZ as well - eliminating any need for tags, jugging, etc.

Top
#60474 - 09/24/11 12:09 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
Rickster Online   content
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 847
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
The swing on TZ would bring you back close to the ledge. But, not quite close enough to step on to it. It's not the GT ledge, however. But, wide enough to sit on. You would swing close enough for someone to toss a line for a quick pull into the ledge. Now, if you pumped it up like on a real swing, you could get the swing going enough to maybe step back in. That would be something, A real swing with 100' line's swinging 80 or 90' out and over the tree tops. Good luck.

Top
#60489 - 09/26/11 02:11 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Originally Posted By: jsj42
Yes, like the Porch Swing or the Alcove Swing.

Man, I hope I run into one of you out west and have the opportunity to offer you beta for a climb or area. That'll be fun.*

*But then, I guess that would be predicated upon you guys actually climbing and not just talking sh#t at the brewpub all day long.


Honestly JSJ, I believe that you didn't get serious answers because there is no translation for fun like Yosemite swings to the Gunks. Those rope swings look longer than most of the Gunks (if not all) are tall and out ledges dont generally ramp downward and arent that big. Its really that simple.

On the other hand I'm not the person to be giving you a definitive no for an answer … especially since I'm not one of those people who actually climbs!

Top
#60490 - 09/26/11 09:12 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mark Heyman]
jsj42 Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 29
It's not the size of the swing that counts; it's how you use it.

Top
#60494 - 09/26/11 08:02 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
That's right! And with the wildly traversing routes one often time encounters in the Gunks, you can really go for a ride if you're not careful!

It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing....

Top
#60499 - 09/27/11 12:59 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: TerrieM]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Whatever, I just read an estimate of the Alcove rope to be app 550ft.

So Terrie - ur gonna have to go back out west to be satisfied!

Top
#60500 - 09/27/11 01:38 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mark Heyman]
jsj42 Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 29
I've done the Alcove Swing more times than I can count. Sure, it's fantastic... but one thing to realize is that, with such a high pendulum point, the swing is actually very slow (in terms of velocity) even though it is huge. Smaller swings are often much more exciting because you can drop into them and gain crazy speed.

Top
#60509 - 09/27/11 03:22 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 709
Loc: NYC
You guys saw that thread on rc.com, where a guy almost died because the shitty rope on the alcove swing fell apart while he was on it, right?

"I almost got the chop today"

Someone replaced the rope, though, so I guess now is the time to jump on the alcove swing.

There are new frontiers in sport rappelling being arranged as we speak in Washington, D.C.

Engineers to Rappel Monument

Maybe they could set up a Wahington Monument swing?
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

Top
#60520 - 09/27/11 09:19 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: SethG]
jsj42 Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 29
Part of the fun of the Alcove Swing was the manky old rope... You never quite knew if you'd be the unlucky one.

Top
#60533 - 09/28/11 01:33 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Sorry, that's dumb

Top
#60536 - 09/28/11 03:50 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2955
Loc: LI, NY
Originally Posted By: Kent
As I'm the one who gets to decide whether or not the Nears reopens it's an opinion perhaps worth considering.


haven't you said that its not your land? Why is it up to you?
And, AG, Cant you take a friggin joke? WTF is the matter with you?
_________________________
tOOthless

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

Top
#60570 - 09/28/11 05:06 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: empicard]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Originally Posted By: empicard
Originally Posted By: Kent
As I'm the one who gets to decide whether or not the Nears reopens it's an opinion perhaps worth considering.


haven't you said that its not your land? Why is it up to you?
...


Not going to search but I'm pretty sure there were contradictions written to this claim too. Pretty sure it went something like It's not my land, I didn't close it...

Top
#60581 - 09/28/11 10:24 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mark Heyman]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Mark and Emp, you guys need to pay closer attention.

Top
#60582 - 09/28/11 11:08 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: RangerRob]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Originally Posted By: jsj42
Part of the fun of the Alcove Swing was the manky old rope... You never quite knew if you'd be the unlucky one.


Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Sorry, that's dumb


Apparently it was to slow to get you heart rate up without being dangerous.

Top
#60590 - 09/29/11 03:32 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mark Heyman]
jsj42 Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 29
I'm setting up the first TZ rope swing this weekend. Anyone is welcome to use it - forewarning though, I'll be using a core shot rope that I found fixed on the Death Slabs approach to Half Dome a few years ago. But don't worry, there are still three strands of core totally intact and the sheath of the rope is white and crisp so I'm guessing that means it's pretty new.

The only bummer is the TZ rope swing is so tiny that it will not be exciting at all. So on second thought, if you don't have something relevant to say to this conversation, why don't you start your own thread. WTF.

Top
#60605 - 09/29/11 05:54 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
DUDE - Suggestion: Go with the flow! Else your thread would be buried below the Kent/AG crap with no responses.

1) You GOT input.

2) It's a small website, not rc.com or supertopo.

3) I don't think people have all that much difficulty in figuring out which posts pertain to your topic and which go elsewhere. If you are seriously "WTF'ing" the posts...I suspect you don't spend much time online. What the hell ya DOING? CLIMBING???!!!

Top
#60609 - 09/29/11 09:35 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: jsj42
So on second thought, if you don't have something relevant to say to this conversation, why don't you start your own thread. WTF.

If you don't like how your thread was hijacked, why don't you start a new thread to discuss what you want? But there really isn't a whole lot more to say about rope swing amusement ride stunts at the Gunks.

Top
#60610 - 09/29/11 11:09 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Kent
Originally Posted By: Mike Rawdon
How about a zipline to traverse the closed section of Near Trapps without technically setting foot on it? Now THAT would be neat.

Air rights will be protected under UN Resolution S/RES/1983 (2011) allowing the use of surface to air missiles against an aggressor to protect sovereignty.


Kent's reasoning is answered at "Taxes VS preservation...have at it!" by Donald.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#60611 - 09/29/11 11:12 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Mark Heyman]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Mark Heyman
Originally Posted By: empicard
Originally Posted By: Kent
As I'm the one who gets to decide whether or not the Nears reopens it's an opinion perhaps worth considering.


haven't you said that its not your land? Why is it up to you?
...


Not going to search but I'm pretty sure there were contradictions written to this claim too. Pretty sure it went something like It's not my land, I didn't close it...


See my posts at "Taxes VS preservation...have at it!"


Edited by donald perry (09/30/11 03:54 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#60612 - 09/29/11 11:47 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: donald perry]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
To avoid any confusion, the Near Trapps land that has been closed remains closed.

Top
#60614 - 09/30/11 12:17 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: Kent]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
For Emp and Mark, I don't own the closed land in the nears. However the owners have appointed me, in writing, to act as their agent regarding who has access to the land. They've asked me to close it but it would be fair to characterize that as a collaborative decision.

Top
#60617 - 09/30/11 01:02 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: donald perry]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: donald perry
It's not closed anymore. See my posts at "Taxes VS preservation...have at it!"

That's a matter of your interpretation of laws governing prescriptive easement and adverse possession. The land would be open only after suit is served and appropriate adjudication by a court. Until such time, the landowners or their appointed representative(s) control access.

Top
#60624 - 09/30/11 04:15 AM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: jsj42]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Originally Posted By: jsj42
I'm setting up the first TZ...The only bummer is the TZ rope swing is so tiny that it will not be exciting at all. So on second thought, if you don't have something relevant to say to this conversation, why don't you start your own thread. WTF.


jsj: Ya got to understand, were trying to satisfy the trail mafias publicity levy. If you're a newcomer ya got a bit of catching up to do and were just helping you out!

Also, FWIW if I remeber correctly your posts elsewhere have been worth something and so don't mind youre criticism,.

Top
#60628 - 09/30/11 12:18 PM Re: Rope swing at the Gunks... [Re: retroscree]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: retroscree
Originally Posted By: donald perry
It's not closed anymore. See my posts at "Taxes VS preservation...have at it!"

That's a matter of your interpretation of laws governing prescriptive easement and adverse possession. The land would be open only after suit is served and appropriate adjudication by a court. Until such time, the landowners or their appointed representative(s) control access.


I stand corrected, you can take it to court or you can get arrested and take it to court.


Edited by donald perry (09/30/11 03:53 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 ... 10 11 >


Sponsored