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#60688 - 10/01/11 11:57 PM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: yorick]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: tradjunkie
... I am glad to see that we have strong advocates on both side! This will be fun and instructive for all. I am particularly glad to see Kent wiling to invest to prove his point with some solid evidence. Data always wins me over, personally.


According to the Zoning Board of Appeals, Kent's arguments have to do with subdividing in the dark green zones. My argument is the same as that of the Zoning Board, that what Kent has been proposing to them would not have been accepted even before the new Zoning laws were defined more specifically. In other words The Zoning Board of Appeals told me that the town would not have approved what Kent had in mind anyway, even before the new Zoning laws spelled it out.

Therefore when Kent talks about changes in Zoning he is not explaining that there was old zoning in place which had not yet been fully defined in writing but was still enforced nevertheless. That is what I was told.

But again, the point of the argument only counts for something if the Preserve is behind it. The Zoning Board of Appeals AND the Tax Collector's office, people who live on the ridge under Millbrook, said that the new zoning is virtually the same as the old zoning, ultimately. And that this is something property owners want up there. They all know each other under Millbrook. I know them; they hate development, so it's a no brainer. If you do not believe me go park your car there and watch what happens, or else try and ring some door bells. You won't be talking to anyone but the state police and your car will get towed.

Preservation is on the minds of the people on the ridge. They bought the property for solitude. Kent and his friends have concerns that have nothing to do with the majority of ridge owners, that want preservation, and this is why the zone was there before and that is why it is there now, and this is why it will always be there even if the Preserve completely disappeared.


Edited by donald perry (10/01/11 11:58 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60689 - 10/02/11 12:30 AM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
The bottom line is that people like Kent want to convince us that they are in the majority when they are the minority. Traditionally people have not bought on the ridge to develop. It is only in the last 25 years that there has been any kind of competing interest in living up here.

Another way to look at it is that Kent's arguments, that the Mohonk Preserve is at fault for preservation rather than development is a contradiction by the fact that preservation and the Preserve has made a reason for development next to it in the first place. Kent would not have so much a reason to build if it was not for the Preservation. He is biting the hand that feeds him. The very same thing that is giving him new opportunities, this he is attacking. Untimely he is asking the unreasonable, and that which is contrary to the very nature of things to begin with.


Edited by donald perry (10/02/11 12:41 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60691 - 10/02/11 02:06 AM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: yorick]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey

If Kent was ever to succeed it would only be in the final sense that he would leave behind his name as a curse. No one likes development, to see an end to sacred places, not even those who make it happen. In the end they realize it was a sin against mankind, that they and everyone else that they convinced of that sin needs to repent of.



"I would here utter words still far more bitter,
Because your avarice afflicts the world,
105 Trampling good men and vaulting evildoers.

"You are the shepherds the evangelist meant
When he saw 'she who sits upon the waters'
Fornicating with the kings of earth.

"She is the one born with the seven heads
110 Who from her ten horns begot all her strength
So long as virtue was her bridegroom's pleasure.

"A god of gold and silver you have fashioned!
How do you differ from idolators
Except they worship one god — you a hundred?
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60693 - 10/02/11 02:26 AM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
________________________________________
John Muir, 1838 - 1914

1872 photo by H. W. Bradley and William Rulofson
Born: 21 April 1838, Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland, UK
Died: 24 December 1914, Los Angeles, California
Daniel Muir was a strict and religious man who was fond of the lash, and son John was a spirited and curious boy who was its frequent recipient. By the time the Muirs moved to Wisconsin in 1849, John could recite the entire New Testament and most of the Old but was fond of hunting birds nests and fighting. The family established Fountain Lake Farm near Portage, Wisconsin, then moved to Hickory Hill Farm. Muir attended the University of Wisconsin-Madison for several years but never advanced past freshman status due to his eclectic class choices. In 1864, possibly in fear of the draft, he left for Canada where he and brother Daniel worked in a lumber mill on Lake Huron. In 1866 Muir took a job as an industrial engineer in a carriage-parts plant at Indianapolis, an accident there drove a tool into one eye causing blindness for several weeks. Taken aback by that he set out on foot towards the south, seeking the "wildest, leafiest, and least trodden way I could find". He intended to continue into South America but came down with malaria in Florida and booked sea passage to San Francisco. He immediately went into the Yosemite Valley, working there for a season as a shepherd, then built a cabin such that Yosemite Creek went through one corner. After reading from a battered volume of Ralph Waldo Emerson for three years he was delighted when Emerson visited Yosemite. They spent a day together and Emerson offered Muir a teaching position at Harvard, which was declined. In 1878 Muir married Louisa Strentzel and they moved into a large home on her family's orchard. Muir was devoted to the family and the farm but it clearly wasn't what his spirit needed so after six years his wife would "shoo him back up" to the mountains for a while and he devoted most of his time at the farm to writing. In 1890 Muir attempted to have Yosemite transferred to the custody of the National Park Service, and in 1892 he formed the Sierra Club. In 1903 President Theodore Roosevelt came to Yosemite with his entourage but asked Muir to show him "the real Yosemite". The two left the others and spent a day together and a night under the stars, waking to fresh snow; in 1905 Yosemite Valley and Mariposa Grove were transferred to the federal park system. His final battle was to block a dam that would flood the Hetch Hetchy valley, which Muir felt was even more stunning than Yosemite, to provide drinking water for San Francisco. Roosevelt saw that no action was taken, William Howard Taft suspended Interior Department approval of the project, but Woodrow Wilson authorized the dam in December of 1913. He was profoundly disheartened by this development, and the following year he came down with pneumonia.

Watch this movie about these "waters" from Canto XIX and the other Yosemite Valley that was lost to development at http://wn.com/Hetch_Hetchy





Edited by donald perry (10/02/11 02:52 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60694 - 10/02/11 03:36 AM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
P.S. Kent, I need the papers for the easement lawsuit you are going to send to me notarized for each signature.


Edited by donald perry (10/02/11 03:37 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60696 - 10/02/11 05:43 AM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: yorick]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
The other day I spoke to JM who was largely influenced by arguments like Kent's. After I talked to him he realized there was more to the story and that he was relying on half truths. Opposing the Preserve could eventually lead to problems. If the Preserve was taken over by the State, it is possible that it could go the way of limited use or no use. Dealing with the state is impossible; for the most part they don't like rock climbing and see it as a problem. Look at the Palisades for example:

Originally Posted By: Palisades Interstate Park Saturday, 18 July 2009


The Palisades Interstate Park Superintendent,

Michael, I have reviewed your rock climbing proposal and also discussed with our legal counsel. Unfortunately we are still of the opinion that rock climbing on the palisades posses too large a risk and liability. Our counsel has significant concerns regarding liability with from both injury and a response perspective. We have already had past litigation on a portion of this issue that was not favorable to us. Additionally, in order to climb the palisades, the approaches tend to be either very close to the lower road or require access over the steep talus slopes, both of which offer significant hazards to the climbers or other park users. Also, while the rock of the palisades is quite hard, it also has significant fractures which result in frequent rock falls/slides most minor but some significant. There have been three in the past 4 years large enough to bury the lower road under 5 plus feet of rock and in one case took out the road entirely. It is not uncommon for us to have to pick up fallen rock off the road.

For these reasons it is not reasonable for us to open the palisades cliffs to rock climbing. If you have any questions I would be glad to respond or discuss them with you.


I admit that you cannot climb everywhere on the Palisades, but you can climb is some places, but climbing there is off limits EVERYWHERE!!! How would you like to face arrests and jail time for climbing this incredible crack???, I know I would!!! I want to go there right now!!!

Keep ignoring accusers and adversaries of preserved lands and the lies they spread and that is what we could potentially end up with, people like Kent running a Park. Why take chances. Support the Preserve and other people will to. Standing up for it, and "K.I.S.S." is the rule that needs to be applied here.



If you click on the images you can zoom in on them.

_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#60697 - 10/02/11 05:48 AM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
One argument I have heard about the Preserve is it costs too much. However, think about how much you pay at the rock gym or how much you pay at state parks. In comparison we are getting a great deal here, so there is no reason to complain.


Edited by donald perry (10/02/11 05:50 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#60700 - 10/02/11 01:07 PM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
NICKELBACK - FAR AWAY (English - Espa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqg53rQMQpE&feature=related

THANK YOU MOHONK PRESERVE, WE APPRECIATE YOU


Edited by donald perry (10/02/11 01:17 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#60711 - 10/03/11 03:36 AM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: yorick]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
changed post


Edited by donald perry (10/03/11 03:40 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#60712 - 10/03/11 04:57 AM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: donald perry]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: donald perry
I was told be a very reliable source that Kent approached the Mohonk Preserve to sell parts of his property. These parts extend out like fingers into the Mohonk Preserve Property, and are of no value, except to the Preserve. It was after Mohonk expressed to Kent that they had no interest in purchasing these parcels that Kent started his anti-Preserve campaign.

What this implies to me, seeing that all his arguments are based on nothing, is that Kent has been employing "strong arm tactics" against the Preserve with arguments that he knows have no validity in an effort to become such a nuisance that the Preserve will purchase these properties just to stop Kent from using his "strong arm tactics" and cutting off accesses to the South Side of the Near Trapps.

I believe that Kent has been using me, you, his neighbors, the Town of Garndenier, and those who argue with him and read his posts or have been cut off from accessing the Nears only for the purpose of crating pressure on the Preserve in the hopes that they will cave in and buy these fingers of property.

We have been duped into buying the story that Kent has an argument. This is the very reason why he says there is nothing he wants from us so we may cross over under the Near Trapps. Rather he wants something from the Preserve, he wants to make money and he thinks he has found a smart way to do it.

This kind of behavior represents one who is a Wolf in Sheep's clothing. Those who cooperate with this kind of behavior are criminals. Thanks but no thanks to that, I would rather walk around. Those who do these acts need to repent to God, to the Town of Gardenier, their neighbors, the Preserve, the Smileys and us, for using us as pawns in these devish games. It is not going to work anymore.

Keep the Trapps closed, we like it like that, it's much better this way. And tell your friends that they need to be ashamed of themselves, they are no different then you are.

Out with the truth Kent! Confess and be a man! You should be ashamed of yourself!

The right thing to do would have been truthful all along. Then at least I could have some respect for you. But rather then do that you decided to sell your soul to the Devil, you lied, you slandered, you cheated, and you robbed from us whatever you could. And I am sure you would have done much more if it was in your power, if it would line your pockets with money!

Quoting for history.

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