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#60299 - 09/20/11 03:37 AM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: yorick]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
delete


Edited by donald perry (09/20/11 02:27 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60302 - 09/20/11 02:31 PM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
I note that after your first post on *MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation Redux*, from there you move on to attack the preserve for the way they use their own land. So I think it is safe to assume that your first post is your last in relation to the alleged illegal or unethical practices of the Preserve. That said, I see that several cases seem to have to do with one or two parties. Is this true? How many problems are there that can potentially end up in court?

My Dad owns property in Connecticut. There is a problem there with the people over a right of way for 40 years. So I can see that if you are dealing with a lot of properties there can be a lot of problems with a lot of people. Now, if you have surveyors that can never follow the deeds, I would think that that is something that would get the attention of the town officials rather quickly. That they would pick up on it. It does not seem like something people who work for the people of the town would just let slip by time and again. Are the town officials really that incompetent up there, that they are just going to let their tax maps be rewritten every time the Preserve comes to town? Why don't you guys talk to the town people and let them know your concerns about compass miscalculations?

Or could it be that these miscalculations are just the nature of the beast, that when you buy land, sometimes there is no way to know for sure where the boundaries are all the time. Sometimes you just have to do the best you can, and in the process you may step on a few toes? I cannot imagine being in that process without some difficulties, it seems unavoidable. For example, I see that concerning one property you complain of, it appears that the property in question was never marked until the Preserve did so. The property was never marked in the way that the Preserve marked it for over a hundred years.

Now, for your story it seems very short, but your list is very long. Can you define who all these people are and why they are on this list?
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60303 - 09/20/11 02:32 PM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
In other words Advocacy group, how have each of these people been effected on what property? What do all these names represent? I count 28 names and I assume that's all we are talking about in relation to your complaints. Are we talking about 28 pieces of property or 3 properties, there is no way to tell. From your story it would seem that this all has to do with 3 pieces of property ultimately, even though you give some hits that there are more ("Other property owners" "Neighboring property owners say the non-profit Mohonk Preserve").

I count the properties as follows:
1 The Fink property.
2. The Sue Boice Wick propery.
3. The Christopher Ullrich property .

One of these properties has to do with land deeded to the preserve by a previous owner: "Christopher Ullrich said the case was initiated after Mohonk Preserve officials came to him with claims that he was clearing land deeded to the preserve by a previous owner.". That leaves us with two property left to build a case for the Preserve using strong arm tactics to seize land from property owners.

Just so I make myself perfectly clear, let me reiterate: *I cannot understand WHAT you are talking about unless you make yourself clear*. Please define the parcels owned by the preserve that are the problem, and the parcels owned by your Advocacy group that are affected. If you cannot do that then there is no reason for us to continue with any interest in what you have to say concerning your said conspiracy targeted against property owners.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60314 - 09/20/11 07:46 PM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: donald perry]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
I Think AG and MPNA may have met their match with this donald perry fella!

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#60320 - 09/20/11 11:25 PM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: Doug]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Originally Posted By: Doug
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
If you want to DP something you might try retroscree's ass. Although it's probably sore enough from our abuse......


Always a classy "group" spokesman


AG speaks for AG, and no one else, especially when he speaks as above.

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#60331 - 09/21/11 03:25 PM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: Kent]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
On the Gary Bischoff show previously posted, where the Mohonk Preserve was not invited to defend itself, a woman named Sue says that the Preserve came to her mother to advise that they resolve a property issue out of court, as it appears. And that otherwise the Preserve would take the property through "Imminent Domain". Sue claims that it is just these kinds of tactics that the Preserve uses to steel peoples properties.

This story, as it seems to me, is very unlikely that anyone would wish to use that kind of an argument, which could so easily be discounted by talking to almost any other person. Everyone knows what imminent Domain is, you can read about it in the papers often enough. And to bring it up in front of two witnesses (herself included, "a real property title examiner … certified in the supreme court of NY State" ), one who might be recording the conversation on the second time around, to show up on a specific date, is even more difficult for me to believe. Perhaps the person doing the talking for the Preserve was a professional in another field and was confused. But whoever he was, if he said anything like this, he was not playing with a full deck of cards. Even if someone had malicious intentions, more than likely, all it would do at best is make them look someone you cannot trust as well as complete idiot.

Perhaps what was actually said or meant was "Adverse Possession", if there is any truth to the story at all. Sue as a professional dealing with these very problems in property had the opportunity to have paperwork, record conversations, call the police, none of which things they did. Sue mentions property line disputes over their property with the Preserve, which boarders they had not property marked (i.e. Sue mentions a conversation with her mother where there was some reluctance to mark the property, and then thereafter they went ahead and marked it as needed.), so Adverse Possession seem more likely what a story like this might have been about.

Adverse possession Purpose and moral basis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession
Adverse possession exists to cure potential or actual defects in real estate titles by putting a statute of limitations on possible litigation over ownership and possession. …Because of the doctrine of adverse possession, a landowner can be secure in title to his land. Otherwise, long-lost heirs of any former owner, possessor or lien holder of centuries past could come forward with a legal claim on the property. The doctrine of adverse possession prevents this. This means the law may be used to reward a person who possesses the land of another for a requisite period of time. Failure of a landowner to exercise and defend his property rights for a certain period may result in the permanent loss of the landowner's interest in the property.


Adverse Possession and Border Fences
http://www.colemanchambers.com/CM/Articles/Adverse-Possession-and-Border-Fences.asp
One of the most common sources of conflict between neighbors, other than occasional late night noise and college football, is property line disputes. Oftentimes the conflict arises out of bordering plants growing from one neighbor's property to another, or the condition of a shared wall or fence in relation to the property line. All property owners should be aware of the law concerning their property boundaries so they can best protect their interests, as well as be a good neighbor. … The law concerning property lines, adverse possession, and bordering trees and fences is complex. There are other elements that contribute to whether a border fence, Leyland Cyprus, or other bordering object establishes a property line or constitutes adverse possession, about which you can ask an attorney. There are also some preventative steps you can take to prevent yourself and your property from being taken through adverse possession. The first step is to know and mark your property lines. This can be done with stakes in the ground, or a blaze on the tree trunk.

Sue mentions that "we're not sure" what Indian tribe all of the "Bear Clan" is from because "nobody wrote it down." And what I am getting out of this is that if you own property you need to maintain your property lines so everyone knows where they are all the time. My father once told me that there is a saying that goes something like "A good neighbor has a wall." I remember asking him what it meant, and he said that unless you maintain your property lines you end up inadvertently causing fights with all your neighbors. It seems that these arguments have everything to do with poorly maintained deeds and poorly maintained property. If there can be no argument with the deed, if you dad did not will your property to the Preserve, then pull up that Preserve fence and there is nothing they can do about it. But if you buy property or maintain property and you allow there to be speculation in the deed then rest assured sooner or later you will have to pay for it. A good neighbor has a wall.

BTW, I [Donald Perry] am not an professional in anything having to do with any of the matters of law to which I address. I am not an attorney nor do I have anything to do professionally with real-estate. Consider that these letters I write are for entertainment purposes not legal advise.




.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60339 - 09/21/11 04:42 PM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: donald perry]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
I for one am pretty convinced that there are multiple people posting as Advocacy Group. The syntax, tone, grammar, and vocabulary are all vastly different from one post to the next. I always spell the same word wrong....I'm always a little crotchety, and I always have a similar approach to responding to people. AG is all over the board with everything. It has to be different people posting under one username. If I were a member of that group I would demand to know who that was and make sure he or she never represents my interests again.

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#60346 - 09/21/11 05:25 PM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: donald perry]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2677
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
I think the literary quote is "Good fences make good neighbors" by Robert Frost. It has been at least 35 years since I read it and hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

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#60357 - 09/21/11 09:58 PM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: yorick]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Fro the closed thread / Re: MohonkPreserveNeighborsAssociation
http://gunks.com/ubbthreads7/ubbthreads.php/topics/54922/1
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08/03/10 Advocacy group: There are at least two cases before the courts right now.
In both cases Mohonk Preserve is the Plaintiff. For those of you not familiar with the legal terms, that means that the Mohonk Preserve is suing their neighbors. We will post the outcome of these trials here and on our facebook page when the judges have written their respective decisions. Since climbers make up a significant percentage of revenue generated, we are asking that you stop donating to the Mohonk Preserve if the ruling favors the Defendants.
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09/16/10 AdvocacyFail: 09-2747
RJI No. 55-09-0162
HON. MARY M. WORK
Assigned Justice

Plaintiff. MP [Mohonk Preserve]
Defendant. MP neighbors [One of the three properties above in discussion by Advocacy group]

The Court finds that plaintiff [Mohonk Preserve] has established the elements required to entitle it to a preliminary injunction: a likelihood of success on the merits, a potential for irreparable harm, and a balance of the equities in their favor (Aetna Ins. Co. v. Capasso, 75 NY2d 860,862 [1990]).

With respect to the merits, as the Court's lengthy recitation of defendants' unfulfilled promises to obtain a survey demonstrates, defendants have had since at least 2005 to produce a survey demonstrating their ownership of the disputed parcel. It took plaintiffs [Mohonk Preserve] surveyor only three months to produce a survey. The fact that defendants [Advocacy group] have failed to secure a survey at this late date in the legal proceedings suggests that such a survey would not be favorable to their position. The plaintiff has produced a survey by an apparently highly qualified surveyor, who is the successor in practice to the individual upon whose work defendants rely for their claim to the disputed portion. Defendants [Advocacy group] did not produce Mr. Pauli's topographic map in support of their opposition to the motion. The title insurer of defendants' [Advocacy group] property has submitted an affidavit in support of plaintiffs [Mohonk Preserve] position.

With respect to irreparable harm, the Court finds that the cutting down of standing trees and/or the cutting up of downed trees constitutes irreparable harm to the ecosystem the Mohonk Preserve was created to safeguard (Gramercy Co. v. Benenson, 223 AD2d 497 [I" Dept 1996]). The building of fires on Mohonk Preserve land creates a potential for a forest fire, which could cause devastating harm to the Preserve.
The equities clearly tilt in favor of the plaintiff Defendants own approximately 14 acres on which they can camp and cut up fire wood. Without knowing the open burning regulations of the Town in which their property is situated, the Court cannot say that they can freely build fires on their property, but they certainly have no need to burn fires on what, from all evidence now before the Court, appears to be the property of the Mohonk Preserve.

The motion for a preliminary injunction is granted. Plaintiff [Mohonk Preserve] shall submit an order in accordance with this decision, excepting only the right of defendants[Advocacy group] to use the shale driveway as it currently exists for access to their property.

This constitutes the decision of the Court. The original decision and order are returned to the attorney for plaintiff. A copy of this decision, and all other papers, are delivered to the Supreme Court Clerk for transmission to the Ulster County Clerk for filing.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#60359 - 09/21/11 10:18 PM Re: Taxes VS preservation...have at it! [Re: donald perry]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Donald, The Fat Lady has yet to sing. A decision will be issued hopefully within the next three months and one side or the other will then have legitimate bragging rights. At least until an appeal is filed.

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